need power conditioner !@#$

[minn_male42]

Keith,

In this particular instance, you were lucky. You know when your panamax died. What happens next time if the surge protection goes and you don't know about it. An MOV can fail and not show any visible signs. Even with a failed MOV the unit will still condition your power and run your system....until the next surge comes through and fries your components.

For the price af the panamax, there are many better, safer options out there.

The companies that are using MOV's for surge protection are sorta like the like comparing edison's wax recorder to a cd recorder today. Sure edison's wax recorder worked....but there are better choices and higher performance units available today!

[T2K]

Russ, you are wrong again. Call Panamax and they will give you full details of the failsafe nature of their products.

You should listen to a good vinyl setup.

Keith

[artto]

Some more food for thought that should make all of you even more paranoid .

UPS' (uninterruptable power supplys) and other forms of regulated power supplies sometimes provide no protection whatsoever. I'm no electrical engineer (just a lowly architect) but the guy down the hall where my office used to be is. Apparently he discovered that the incoming power to the building had some kind of phasing problems. The phase was so skewed that it basically rendered the UPS/regulated power supplies/surge protectors useless. This was in a commercial building, one of those strip mall store/office/bank things.

To make sure these things are actually going to work for you, I would recommend paying a COMPETENT electrician a few bucks to checkout the quality of the power coming into your home/building. If its not "proper", get some documentation from the electrician & then call your power company & make them correct it.

Another thing you should do if your going to have dedicated circuts for your audio/video equipment is to use an isolated ground on those circuts.

[erdric]

>>I'm no electrical engineer (just a lowly architect)<<

Wow, another lowly architect here!

[minn_male42]

Keith,

You said it yourself - your panamax unit died to save your components! There IS more than one line of units that will protect your components and NEVER die. (Surge-X, Brickwall, etc.)

Let's see....a unit that dies after a surge, needs to be sent in to be repaired,...mmmmmm...waiting...ok...finally it gets sent back after a $35 charge...

or...buy a unit once and never have to worry ever again...for about the same price...

mmmmmm....not really a tough choice.....(no matter what the panamax guys say about the "failsafe nature" of their products - it DIED!)

by the way, I really love the sound of a good vinyl sound...i was trying to illustrate the vast differences in technology from a surge protector based upon MOV's versus series mode technology....i guess you missed that...

[T2K]

No, I got your point.

I simply expressed my prior experience with a product in response to a members question.

Your point was that you wanted to argue about what you believe to be a superior product. I really don't care what you think. If I did, I would have asked you for your opinion.

I realize that everyone has their own personal preferences. Your have your preference for a certain product, and I have mine. When someone asks for my opinion I gladly share my opinion with them, all the while trying to remember not to chastise someone else for their opinion. You should try that sometime yourself. That was YOUR point.

You and Ed must be branch kin.

Keith

[minn_male42]

Keith,

Don't tell me that "you're wrong again"...and then tell me in the next post that you don't care about my opinion.

I respect your opinion about your product preference, but don't tell me that I am wrong about the facts in this situation.

1. Your product died!

2. I point that out and I am chastised for expressing an opinion "that you didn't ask for".

3. MOV's are inferior technology!

My response was for the original poster in this case. He is/was considering surge protection options. Personally, I believe that a forum is an open discussion about facts. Facts become important when you plug something into the wall.

Fact #1: Panamax surge protectors have been damaged by surges.

Fact #2: Series Mode protectors have never been damaged by surges.

(Surge-x has never had a unit fail in over ten years of product in the field)

I humbly apologize if I didn't receive your advance permission to post a response to your opinion about your beloved panamax surge unit....

lol

[Mighty Favog]

Just found this at Monster's site:

http://www.monstercable.com/power/productPagePower.asp?pin=1227

It may be the ticket....

[sunnysal]

Michael,

Since you want both surge AND sag protection your options are slightly limited. my Monster HTS3500 (mentioned by others here) is a great surge protector (MOV versus non-MOV not-withstanding LOL), so are the units from panamax, etc. but as surge protectors and filters only they will not correct for voltage sages. you need either the unit you mentioned, the monster equivalent or, I you have the scratch, a PSaudio AC regenerator. I have tried UPSs (big and small ones for computers) with my audio gear and would only recommend using them with low draw components (like a DAC or a CD player) not with an amp and be careful when selecting to be sure the provide surge protection, surprisingly some do not. warm regards, tony

[michael hurd]

Thanks, everyone for your input on this topic. PS audio seems to be out of my pricing league, so my choices are still limited. I believe that when I have more disposable coin, I will end up ordering the tripp-lite unit I was originally looking at. Mov - based surge protection is simply not a choice for me ( I guess I am a little paranoid ). But thanks again.

[Tom Mobley]

Hey guys,

If you've ever tried to collect on an insured UPS or PO package you'll be well prepared to deal with collecting on the surge protectors equipment warranty. I've never heard of anybody actually getting anything out of this yet. It's widely regarded in the computer business to be a marketing scam.

Tom

[Q-Man]

Tom,

Your right, you will never collect a dime on the so called equipment protection warranty. Way too many loop holes. Don't buy one for that reason.

Buy all the protection you can afford. Try do buy a non MOV devise for a little more money. Then if you can afford a little more cash, you shoul even be able to hear a difference in your system.

On the PS Audio site they did a demo with the Monster Cable 3500 and some of their stuff at some trade show. The grafts show that the Monster Cable does improve the sound, but only at the very highest frequencies. Theirs cleaned up the noise levels by some 40db throught the whole audio frequency.

The 20 amp version of the Power Director cost me

$1,800.00. A few others I was concidering were also in that price range. It took me almost two years to make up my mind to lay down that kind of money for a devise like this. My first reason for buying it is because of the noise that it is supposed to remove from your system. Second came the protection.

If I don't hear any improvement, and I don't mean

just a slight one, it's going back. I'll let you guys know what I think when I receive it.

[minn_male42]

Q-Man

The surge protectors/rf-emi filters can only remove the noise that is in your ac line. If there is no noise present, there will be nothin gto remove.

If you live next to a power sub-station or have very noisy power for whatever reason, you might be able to hear a difference. Personally, I've never heard a difference in my location.

Russ

[jstanton8]

I inherited an APC 1250 UPS which, according to the back panel, is intended to be used as a UPS for computers (I noticed a sort of "disclaimer" on the rear panel which stated something to the effect of "for use with computers only.")

Is there any real reason this could not be used with my home theater system? I am guessing the "disclaimer" is solely for liability protection for the manufacturer, not because it won't work for other applications...

There is one other thing: Also appearing on the rear panel is a statement that the "output of the UPS is non-sinusoidal". Okay. Can anyone translate please? What does that mean practically?

Thanks,

J Stanton

[tuber]

The problem with a UPS is the switching power supply used to keep the batterys charged

adds noise to the line.

[jstanton8]

How much noise? I also inherited a massive Torus (toroidal?)power conditioner...what if I put that in line after the UPS?

[STL]

Watch eBay for Tripplite products. A while back I picked up a IS-500 for only $10; it costs $160 from Parts Express. I also bought a LC-1800 for $30 whereas they are $220 at PE.

[Soundthought]

I've been using a PowerWedge 113.

Been quite happy with it's consistency.

I'm not going to go into explicit details on it's performance in my system.

All I can say is it works for me.

This might not help much, but it's another avenue for you to explore.

Enjoy your system.

[DrPyro]

michael hurd-

I don't want to get into a debate over MOV vs non-MOV, but I would like to put some perspective into this thread. MOV are a valid way to protect your equipment, IMHO, you don't need to purchase a non-MOV device if you are not succeptable to surges. Having lived most of my life in Kansas and watching the "Wrath of God" thunderstorms, more serious protection of your sensitive audio equipment MIGHT be necessary. After two direct hits to the house (once it blew our chimney to bits...) and countless near hits we have lost various electrical components. We have lost more phones then I care to count and the only ones that survive are the 1950's style phones. However, no TVs, no VCRs or Computers have been killed and most are not behind a surge protector (lightning is just funny that way). Most ppl probably don't need to spend the extra money on non-MOV based solutions when MOV based solutions will take 1000 or so hits before failure (I don't know the exact specs). So how long will 1000 hits last you??? 5 years? 10 years? As much as many of us tend to upgrade our equipment, I don't think this should be a major problem. Many of the products we suggest (Panamax & Monster) are more power centers + surge supression + AC filters, which we use to reduce high frequency AC noise, control the unsightly AC cords, and minimize ground loop problems which benifits greatly out weigh the neagives of using MOV technology.

JMHO

-Dave