Separates vs. High End A/V Receiver

[mmiles]

What would you do?

I have been looking at the Yamaha RZ-V1, Denon 5803 and Pioneer 49TX/i. I have found them from about $2100 (yamaha) - $3000 (denon) on the web. Also I have been looking at Adcom, Sunfire, Oultaw and Lexicom. True the pricing is more that double but I want something I can "set and forget". Are there any manufactures that are making software upgradable preamps? That would be way cool but would cut into future sales of the model xyz-1a that replaced the one year old model xyz...

mm

[prodj101]

avoid receivers at all cost. if you can avoid seperates get them and end of story, you will not regret it! receivers are just toys to me. get a Rotel system, it can be done for about 4,000$, and will outperform any receiver. Look at it this way. In a receiver, the amplifier, processor, tuner, and preamp all run off of one power supply, which puts limitations on all sections. they also must fit all of these in a tiny chasis. which In a seperates system, the tuner, pre amp, processor, and amp all have their own power source, and unlimited chassis size, so they have no limitations

[jdm56]

The Sony TA-E9000ES is software upgradable. And I believe the Lexicon is too. And I know there are others, but can't name them of the top of my big, fat head with certainty.

Seems to be kind of a toss-up to me, receivers vs. separates. You can get the state-of-the-art performance and features sooner and cheaper with receivers, but generally they are not upgradable. OTOH, You may pay a LOT more for a pre-amp/power amp/tuner combination up front, but perhaps have a measure of upgradability, and possibly superior performance.

One down-side to the big, flagship receivers, at least regarding their use with high-sensitivity klipsch loudspeakers is that you are really paying for a lot of power that you'll probably never use. Personally, I wish they would make some really clean, moderately sized receivers that also have state-of-the-art features and performance. As it is, we usually have to wait for the trickle-down effect; top-of-the-line features to be available in more affordable units.

[marksdad]

sony is the proverbial thief in the night, once they have your money they cut and run. custermer service?????????? anyway rotel is definatly a large cut above, sound, build quality, customer service. i had many different types od recievers, and while many do sound pretty good, they are just entry level. i could never get my sound just so, the way natural sounded to me, and 1 day i went to the local high end dealor, and made head to head comparisons, rotel was a bright star, and because of the difference in sound, they were hooked up to b&w 802's so i naturally thought they were also the next stepi purchased the 1075 amp, 1066 ssp, the 1080 tuner, and the 991 cd player i went home and patiently hiiked everything up, and walla, i placed a well known cd on and i sat back, i was almost breathless, the same thing i had heard at the high end shop was now coming from my klipsch's, the music was soooooo beautiful, litterally breathtaking! clarity, range, definition, it was beautiful beyond my hopes, even the tuner output is near cd quality, and i have now listened for a couple of months, and it just gets better, until 2 weeks ago. my onkyo dvd player developed problems, so i took advantage of my extended warranty and replaced it with a higher end "SONY" i did this because i knew that this would be for my son, as i was saving for the rotel dvd-a sacd dvd combo player, as soon as i got it connected i thought i would see the difference between brands, and i placed the same original cd i played when i first played my rotels, ha ha ha ha, the difference was worlds apart, the source output on this sony reduced my entire system to a huge boom box, not natural at all, good, boomy, well suited to hip hop, but for a full range of music and ht, no no no. so in my opinion there is something to be said for timbre matching right down to the electronics, hope this helped, but the way to go is audition-audition-audition, it could have saved me thousands

[Kain]

I'd take separates over ANY A/V receiver any day!

Parasound amplifiers sound AMAZING with Klipsch! Highly recommended!

[Flason]

Check out the Outlaw 770 amp and 950 pre. You would be looking at 200 watts into 7 channels for around $2600 for the combo. If I had to do it all over again, that would be the way I went

[Kain]

I would avoid the Outlaw Audio 950 preamp/processor because there have been a number of reports about it hissing. And since Klipsch speakers are so efficient/sensitive, the last thing you want is a hissing preamp/processor.

[j-malotky]

MM

Do separates.

JM

[aab3rd]

I have the Outlaw 950 in my system with a Marantz MM9000

5 ch amp and a MA6100 monoblock for a 6.1 system. My 950 does not have the "hiss" problem that some had. I believe that they have the hiss problem solved. It is a great pre and is inexpensive at $899. The only problem is that it is not upgtadeable. It does have EVERYTHING needed now:

Dolby EX, Pro Logic II, DTS ES matrix and discrete, 5 ch. and 7 ch. stereo, plus Cirus Surround post processing that will turn a 5.1 encoded disk to a 6.1 or 7.1 track. It does this better that using the Dolby EX when using a 5.1 encoded disk.

I would buy the Outlaw again unless money was no object, in that case I would probably get an Anthem or a Krell Showcase. I just can not see getting a Lexicon or a Krell Home Theater Standard. They are of course great Pre amps.

I have not heard the Outlaw amps but everything said about them has been good.

[Joe DiClemente]

Hi Kain64

I have a Sunfire theater grand 3 and a Parasound HCA-2205AT amp coming. My speaker setup is the same as yours. So you think I'm going to be happy with this set up for my klipsch?? Right now I'm using a low end sony receiver. Hopefully this will make a huge difference. Does the parasound sound good in 2 channel for music??

Thanks

Joe

[Kain]

Parasound + Klipsch = Heaven.

Parasound amplifiers have a nice warm sound and have MEGA SLAM (bass).

You are gonna be VERY happy with this amplifier.

Oh, and just so you know, they used Parasound amplifiers when doing the sound testing in Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones.

[MrMcGoo]

The big advantage of separates over AV receivers is that the amplifiers are better and last indefinitely. Separate pre\pros that are upgradeable need to have both software and processor upgrades IMO.

Separate manufacturers are usually about a year behind receiver manufacturers. For example, Pioneer and Denon were the first to produce THX Ultra 2 processors.

Flagship receivers are upgradable. Denon and Onkyo have upgraded both software and hardware on their flagships.

Pioneer announced an upgrade for the VSX-49TX for November, 2002. So far there has been zero follow through on Pioneer's part.

Bill

[danbry39]

All those that have lauded the Parasound amp/Klipsch combo are absolutely correct. This is a match made in heaven.

As for separates, I personally would never go any other way. Mark's dad summed it all up very nicely. Another world completely from what you could expect to find through a receiver. And, with separates, you can go different manufacturers to best suit your taste/budget. I know my Rotel 1066/Parasound 1205A really go well with Klipsch. I hear the Rotel amps work nicely too, but aren't as warm as the Parasounds. The price I paid for both was $1999 plus tax on the Rotel and shipping on the Parasound. I've not heard a receiver that comes close to the sound this combo produces, regardless of cost, especially in two-channel sound. I've heard the Outlaw combo is a bit more to the bright side than Parasounds/Rotels. If so (I haven't heard it myself), it wouldn't be as good a match.

[Kain]

Yes, Outlaw Audio amplifiers are actually made by ATI. Both have a brighter sound than Parasound and Rotel. However, in my opinion, Parasound sounds best with Klipsch.

[Kain]

For your information, the Rotel RMB-1095 has a damping factor of 400. The Parasound HCA-2205AT has a damping factor if 1000!

[Doug C]

Receivers are nice if you want something easy to set-up and operate. Not everyone is into all the cables and big equipment racks that you tend to end up with when going to separates.

Having said that, I have separates. Separates give you a multitude of hook-up options that a guy like me loves. Others may consider the flexability I love just too complicated however? If you are a critical listener, the right separates will provide better sound (just my opinion).

My local Klipsch dealer has all his demo speakers hooked up to receivers. Honestly I never would have purchased Klipsch if it had not been for the fact that I brought my own CD player and tube amp in for a demo.

I run a pair of RF-5's with a 2 watt/channel Decware tube amp and the sound is great with no lack of volume. The tube amp is a little shy on the bass but since I have twin SVS Ultra subs that does not matter. I'm upgrading to the RF-7's which should be in in a couple weeks.

Doug C

[erdric]

mmiles,

I did this dance for some time. In the end there were just too many positives to having separates. Higher quality power, the ability to get an amp that you like and keep it forever, flexibility, etc. Depending on what you get separates can be cheaper than going with a top-of-the-line receiver.

I'm going with Rotel if I ever stop buying used Klipsch

[BLOOMIS914]

I will jump on the Parasound bandwagon and mention that I am a new Parasound fan. I bought the Parasound 806A 6 channel amplifier this summer because my Pioneer VSX-811S receiver was clipping at high levels. I am driving Chorus II mains, KLF-C7 center KSP-S6 surrounds and a KLF-C7 rear center. Also using sub out for front KSW-15 and rear KSW-10.

I was a little skeptic at first, but once I hooked up the Parasound, it was sonic bliss!!!!! And more dynamic then I dreamed..........Power??......Good lord!....I am using the Peon-eer now as my pre-pro/tuner and all is well. With the Pioneer the rec. would clip during heavy bass/action scenes at around -28 on the volume dial. Now with the Parasound I can't listen above -34 and that is for men only!!!! Women and small children run upstairs at anything louder than -40 now.

BTW, I bought my Parasound 806A used for $400 off the HT Forum classifieds. I would buy a good processor for DD-EX, DTS-ES 5/7 ch. stereo and a good tuner and you will be at least as good as the flagship AV receivers.

I have since learned that Parasound is a world class brand for separates and know first-hand why. Good luck!!

[marksdad]

excuse me, but, rotel+ klipsch= heaven...silly silly boys, he he he

[Kain]

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On 11/30/2002 6:21:45 AM marksdad wrote:

excuse me, but, rotel+ klipsch= heaven...silly silly boys, he he he

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Go to Hell.

j/k