Maggie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Hello, Iḿ new to this forum and have a question concerning big klipschorns. I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic). Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room? Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, Maggie said: Hello, Iḿ new to this forum and have a question concerning big klipschorns. I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic). Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room? Thanks. Welcome to the forum @Maggie... The members will say yes. Let's both learn more... thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Quote Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room? That is correct. You need two good corners. Some will say they will work in any size room with two good corners. I say there is a minimum distance for them to be apart for best results. Bottom line is Corners -Absolutely Size - Depends on who you ask. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Shakeydeal said: That is correct. You need two good corners. Some will say they will work in any size room with two good corners. I say there is a minimum distance for them to be apart for best results. Bottom line is Corners -Absolutely Size - Depends on who you ask. Shakey Thank you very much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Maggie said: ...I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic). Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room? "Operate as it should" includes a wide variability in interpretation. Perhaps if you can briefly discuss what kind of music you tend to listen to (i.e., rock, classical, jazz, dance, etc.), how loud, how soft, and what your expectations are, it will be much easier to answer your question. It's not yet clear what your intent or expectations are. For instance, if you were to identify with David Mancuso (RIP) or Colleen (Cosmo) Murphy's environments at The Loft parties in New York City, then that assumes a certain type of music, an average loudness level, and music genre type/source (i.e., lots of older music only found on vinyl), and a certain musical or entertainment aesthetic. If however, you're into close monitoring of audiophile style recordings of largely digital provenance, then that conveys an entirely different aesthetic. In the first scenario, you might be quite satisfied, just guessing from the picture (assuming dimensions there). In the other scenario, not so much, especially if the room dimensions don't allow you to listen from far enough away from the loudspeakers for them to coalesce well and develop a natural bass response without the entire room being in the "pressure zone" like listening inside an automobile interior. Having a bit more room internal volume and distance allows the Khorns to "breathe" well and give the listener a sense of space. I have found that there are effectively minimum room dimensions that limit using stock Khorns (...or any sort of loudspeakers, for that matter...). That seems to be about 8 feet of height (due to the collapsing polar midrange horns used), and about 13-14 feet for length and width (assuming an enclosed room). At smaller dimensions, the limitations of using Khorns (in particular) begin to become dominant quite rapidly. Some of the source of these issues has to do with not being able to move back a little bit from them and space them a bit wider side-to-side to further increase that listening distance. Anyone walking around the loudspeakers and interacting with that sound field just around the loudspeakers will be immediately apparent, I've found...even if not in a direct line of sight to the loudspeakers from the listener. The openings in the room to other rooms that you show definitely aren't show stoppers--in fact, they will likely help psychoacoustically, but the minimum dimensions of the room itself (length, width, and height) will likely be significant in my experience, even if you go to great lengths to EQ and time align them (i.e., correct their output for extreme nearfield listening). Some minimal discussion of room acoustic treatments in the nearfield is likely going to be fruitful going into that dialogue. Like how to handle the ceiling and floor bounce and keeping the area within about 3-4 feet of the front panels of the Khorns free of acoustically reflective objects (or at least heavily covered with absorptive material)--including electronics and furniture. I'd avoid "entertainment centers" and anything that places electronics near the loudspeakers within 4 feet on centerline height with the midrange horns. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted August 9, 2021 Author Share Posted August 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris A said: "Operate as it should" includes a wide variability in interpretation. Perhaps if you can briefly discuss what kind of music you tend to listen to (i.e., rock, classical, jazz, dance, etc.), how loud, how soft, and what your expectations are, it will be much easier to answer your question. It's not yet clear what your intent or expectations are. For instance, if you were to identify with David Mancuso (RIP) or Colleen (Cosmo) Murphy's environments at The Loft parties in New York City, then that assumes a certain type of music, an average loudness level, and music genre type/source (i.e., lots of older music only found on vinyl), and a certain musical or entertainment aesthetic. If however, you're into close monitoring of audiophile style recordings of largely digital provenance, then that conveys an entirely different aesthetic. In the first scenario, you might be quite satisfied, just guessing from the picture (assuming dimensions there). In the other scenario, not so much, especially if the room dimensions don't allow you to listen from far enough away from the loudspeakers for them to coalesce well and develop a natural bass response without the entire room being in the "pressure zone" like listening inside an automobile interior. Having a bit more room internal volume and distance allows the Khorns to "breathe" well and give the listener a sense of space. I have found that there are effectively minimum room dimensions that limit using stock Khorns (...or any sort of loudspeakers, for that matter...). That seems to be about 8 feet of height (due to the collapsing polar midrange horns used), and about 13-14 feet for length and width (assuming an enclosed room). At smaller dimensions, the limitations of using Khorns (in particular) begin to become dominant quite rapidly. Some of the source of these issues has to do with not being able to move back a little bit from them and space them a bit wider side-to-side to further increase that listening distance. Anyone walking around the loudspeakers and interacting with that sound field just around the loudspeakers will be immediately apparent, I've found...even if not in a direct line of sight to the loudspeakers from the listener. The openings in the room to other rooms that you show definitely aren't show stoppers--in fact, they will likely help psychoacoustically, but the minimum dimensions of the room itself (length, width, and height) will likely be significant in my experience, even if you go to great lengths to EQ and time align them (i.e., correct their output for extreme nearfield listening). Some minimal discussion of room acoustic treatments in the nearfield is likely going to be fruitful going into that dialogue. Like how to handle the ceiling and floor bounce and keeping the area within about 3-4 feet of the front panels of the Khorns free of acoustically reflective objects (or at least heavily covered with absorptive material)--including electronics and furniture. I'd avoid "entertainment centers" and anything that places electronics near the loudspeakers within 4 feet on centerline height with the midrange horns. Chris Thank you for your extensive reply. The room is 24x24 feet. The part in the picture is 15x24. The listening chair is at 12 feet from the speakers. Ceiling height is 8 feet. Music I listen to is a mix of Classical and jazz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Nice! A sketch of the floor plan and placement of the speakers, furniture, windows, can point the discussion in the right direction. Chris already gave you the big picture, and I'm sure it's a workable scenario. And welcome to the forums. Pay no attention when we try to tell you how to spend your money. 😁 Bruce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I approve Maggie... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) A sketch of the room. I want to build them myself. I've built some cabinets in the past before. Never heard Klipschorns in my life before. I'm from europe and over here you seldom see them. I've seen them in life as a kid and always loved their design. In the past I have owned Tannoy D 900's and Piegas.The last couple of years I have been listening to Magnepans which I love. Edited August 10, 2021 by Maggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Marvel said: Nice! A sketch of the floor plan and placement of the speakers, furniture, windows, can point the discussion in the right direction. Chris already gave you the big picture, and I'm sure it's a workable scenario. And welcome to the forums. Pay no attention when we try to tell you how to spend your money. 😁 Bruce Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 23 hours ago, Maggie said: Hello, Iḿ new to this forum and have a question concerning big klipschorns. I know Klipschorns use the walls in a room as a horn. My room isn't that big and one of the walls is open. ( see pic). Does this mean the Klipsch won't operate as it should in this room? Thanks. we have to make a distinction ---------there are 2 types of Khorns ----open backs , and enclosed backs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Maggie said: A sketch of the room. I want to build them myself. I've built some cabinets in the past DIY khorns-- good luck - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 5 hours ago, RandyH said: DIY khorns-- good luck - They are difficult to build, 50+ pieces per cabinet a compound angle cuts. The Speaker Labs SK plans have pretty good instructions. There are folks on here who have built them. I have a cd with those and some variations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Unless your a above average woodworker you will be better off buying some used ones. They will work better on the that other long wall. But I do have mine 14 feet apart and they work fine. Might need to move chair closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wirrunna Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 This old thread may be of interest..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 I understand open side baffles is less than perfect in my constellation. Lascala's or Cornwalls than. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 I have plans on PC at home... they will be in English measurements... just three hours to go before I get home. I have PDFs of LaScala (original), 2 port and 3 port Cornwall (original). Don't have the Cornwall II, III, or IV, or the LaScala II or newer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 Here are the La Scala drawings, in PDF format. The will scale to print on standard letter size, but are 36x24in. Also a set of build instructions by the late Dennis Kleitsch. There's a timeline of the La Scala, I think done by Mark Kauffmanm, and an exploded view of the cabinet I made some years ago (missing one piece - if you find it you don't get a toaster). LaScala.pdf LS Time Line MK 060411.pdf La Scala_build_instructions.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie Posted August 11, 2021 Author Share Posted August 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Marvel said: Here are the La Scala drawings, in PDF format. The will scale to print on standard letter size, but are 36x24in. Also a set of build instructions by the late Dennis Kleitsch. There's a timeline of the La Scala, I think done by Mark Kauffmanm, and an exploded view of the cabinet I made some years ago (missing one piece - if you find it you don't get a toaster). LaScala.pdf 309.79 kB · 2 downloads LS Time Line MK 060411.pdf 8.6 kB · 3 downloads La Scala_build_instructions.pdf 16.46 kB · 2 downloads Thank you so much.It's highly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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