Mark Swearengin Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Hello everyone! I'm not only new to the Klipsch forum, but I'm also new to Klipsch. I'm a 45-year audiophile who's been into ribbon speakers with subwoofers for the last 25 years, and Martin Logan Electrostatics which I dearly love for the last 3 years. I primarily listen to small combo Jazz, with some Bluegrass and Folk thrown in. I've been intrigued by Klipsch ever since I heard a large pair at Listen Up Audio in Denver, Colorado back in the early 1980's. They played something from Manhiem Steamroller over them, and I was blown away by the huge image and dynamics, but not so much when I had them put on Jazz. The image was too large to seem real to me, but I could understand why the Rockers loved them. I'd always had it in my mind that someday I would pick up a pair for a fun, second system, and about a month ago I did just that when I bought a pair of Forte II's from a Klipsch enthusiast. He demonstrated them from his open garage door, and I very quickly realized they were a lot different than the Klipsch I'd heard years ago. Although they still had that larger-than-life image, they had an accuracy that seemed to rival my beloved electrostatics. He also demonstrated a pair of La Scalas which had an even larger image, but I preferred the Forte's, which seemed to have a tighter, more lifelike image, tighter bass, and just more natural sound to my ears. I played Jazz trumpet for many years, but I could certainly see a rock and roller preferring the bigger brother. I brought the Fortes home, and had a lot of fun with them in my 15x 25 foot room, although I could not get them to match the sound out of his garage despite the much better equipment I was driving them with, and numerous attempts to reposition them. The bass was overwhelming, and the image did not seem to be as cohesive. I suspected the room was a little too small for them. They were fun to use, but when I went back to my Martin Logans I knew I wouldn't be replacing them anytime soon! Several days later a pair of 1980's vintage Heresys showed up in a storage unit for $300, and of course I had to buy them! These were the series I, with what I assumed would be inferior drivers and crossovers compared to the Forte II. I inserted them into my system not even knowing if they worked. The sound that they produced just blew my mind! Crisp and clear with tight imaging and a tremendous soundstage. The acoustic suspension woofer seemed much more accurate than the newer Fortes, and the loss of bass on the lower end was more than made up for by my 12 inch Dynaudio subs when needed. I've done quite a bit of switching back and forth, and my initial impressions still stand. I had at one point thought I might buy a pair of Forte or Heresy IV's, but now I'm wondering if the original Klipsh sound will continue to sound better to me for the types of music I listen to. Although they are different than my electrostatics, they just sound "right" to me, as do the Martin Logans. The differences of both enhance the listening experience of using either type of speaker, whereas the newer Fortes differences act as a distraction. I could live with these little Heresys from here on out despite them being over 30 years old. I can't imagine a change in crossover capacitors enhancing anything. Is there a hard-core group of audiophiles out there that think Klipsch got it right the first time? At this point I feel no need to audition a pair of III's or IV's despite the glowing reviews. I'm using high grade tube gear and superb turntable/cartridges, as well as highly rated cd players. Damn these speakers are fun. They never fail to put a smile on my face! Thoughts? Edited June 17, 2023 by Mark Swearengin Changed title. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 This is my personal experience. I owned original Heresys, Heresy IIs and Heresy IIIs all at the same time. Listened to them all a lot. I now have five original Heresys in my home theater. PWK got it right the first time. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flevoman Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Welcome, and beware... Klipsch Heritage sound can be addictive. I also started with the Heresy, several speakers further now, and every speaker became bigger and bigger.. now I am listening to lascalas. The scary thing is... There is also such a thing as the Jubilee 😳 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick66 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 i have 3 pairs of H1s. Recently added the Chorus2, and Forte1 to my collection. The Chorus 2 is my favorite of the bunch. IMHO - At the end of the day after listening and enjoying them all, there's no point for me in ranking which is better. The specific music I'm listening to often plays more of a determining factor on what pair i enjoy more. My H1's probably get more play time than anything else, and I like them better without the subs. There's something very infectious about their voicing. The upper mid-base speed, and the mid to hf coherency brings out the goosebumps.. I haven't had the opportunity to listen to newer klipsch, so I can't make a comparison. But I'm extremely content with my 40+year old klipsch.... no need to worry about ugrade-itus. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 16, 2023 Moderators Share Posted June 16, 2023 4 hours ago, Mark Swearengin said: not only new to the Klipsch forum, but I'm also new to Klipsch. I'm a 45-year audiophile who's been into ribbon speakers with subwoofers for the last 25 years, and Martin Logan Electrostatics which I dearly love for the last 3 years. Welcome to the Forum! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I sometimes really can not say whether new is better, so I do not mean new is worse. Old Klipsch are very good and new Klipsch are very good. It has evolved a bit technically. But also the music, the recording technology, the taste of the sound, the mix, the mastering have changed. Is a 60s Bluenote record worse than a brand new recording? No. Sometimes you hear new recordings today that even go back to the routes. Every decade has its sound. Very old Santana or Wishbone Ash recordings, old Steely Dan, Deep Purple, they have character and "their" sound. Some of it sounds better on vintage Klipsch. Some new classical recordings sound better on new Klipsch. It's not just Klipsch. Why are companies like Graham Audio or Harbeth successful? It's the BBC sound of the 70s. Going back is a bit like that to find the compass again. Some new developments are going to higher and higher resolution, but sometimes the music falls by the wayside. One more aspect comes to mind. In 1989 Art Blakey celebrated his 70th birthday with a concert in Germany. There were members of the Jazz Messengers in three formations from three decades. They played one after the other with Art. Four or five tunes each time. I can't remember all of them at once. But there were musicians like Freddy Hubbard or Art Farmer. They all played wonderfully. But the sound of the different generations was incredibly different. I don't mean what they played, but how the sound of a sextet was so different. Different instruments maybe, different wind technique, different feeling, very significantly different. I mean, that's where it starts. Only then comes the recording technique and the respective taste how a recording should sound. At the end comes the speaker, who is also a child of his time. There are two things to distinguish about speakers, one is that there has been technical progress, more high frequencies, less distortion and so on. On the other hand, the taste of the time. Where is the journey going? With sports cars, acceleration was impressive 10 years ago. Today, my tax advisor's Tesla accelerates faster than the fastest Porsche 10 years ago. But...it's boring. So other criteria will be found, for cars as for speakers. Horns like Klipsch always have an emotional advantage. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Swearengin Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 hours ago, wuzzzer said: This is my personal experience. I owned original Heresys, Heresy IIs and Heresy IIIs all at the same time. Listened to them all a lot. I now have five original Heresys in my home theater. PWK got it right the first time. That does not surprise me based on my limited experience. I continue to be enchanted by these little Heresys! I'd love to hear the Fortes in a larger room and may just arrange to do that at my office. Of course now I'm eyeing a nice pair of Cornwall I's wondering how they would sound. One could become addicted!! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Swearengin Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Flevoman said: Welcome, and beware... Klipsch Heritage sound can be addictive. I also started with the Heresy, several speakers further now, and every speaker became bigger and bigger.. now I am listening to lascalas. The scary thing is... There is also such a thing as the Jubilee 😳 Funny you'd mention that as I'm now looking at a pair of Cornwall 1's and wondering how they would sound, lol. Addicting indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Swearengin Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 hours ago, rick66 said: i have 3 pairs of H1s. Recently added the Chorus2, and Forte1 to my collection. The Chorus 2 is my favorite of the bunch. IMHO - At the end of the day after listening and enjoying them all, there's no point for me in ranking which is better. The specific music I'm listening to often plays more of a determining factor on what pair i enjoy more. My H1's probably get more play time than anything else, and I like them better without the subs. There's something very infectious about their voicing. The upper mid-base speed, and the mid to hf coherency brings out the goosebumps.. I haven't had the opportunity to listen to newer klipsch, so I can't make a comparison. But I'm extremely content with my 40+year old klipsch.... no need to worry about ugrade-itus. Agree that the type of music makes a big difference. That's also true with my electrostatics. I have definitely experienced the goosebump factor!! And I agree the mid bass is spectacular, I suspect because they are acoustic suspension. I've always loved original Advents for that very reason. They were my first good speakers 45 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Swearengin Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 48 minutes ago, KT88 said: I sometimes really can not say whether new is better, so I do not mean new is worse. Old Klipsch are very good and new Klipsch are very good. It has evolved a bit technically. But also the music, the recording technology, the taste of the sound, the mix, the mastering have changed. Is a 60s Bluenote record worse than a brand new recording? No. Sometimes you hear new recordings today that even go back to the routes. Every decade has its sound. Very old Santana or Wishbone Ash recordings, old Steely Dan, Deep Purple, they have character and "their" sound. Some of it sounds better on vintage Klipsch. Some new classical recordings sound better on new Klipsch. It's not just Klipsch. Why are companies like Graham Audio or Harbeth successful? It's the BBC sound of the 70s. Going back is a bit like that to find the compass again. Some new developments are going to higher and higher resolution, but sometimes the music falls by the wayside. One more aspect comes to mind. In 1989 Art Blakey celebrated his 70th birthday with a concert in Germany. There were members of the Jazz Messengers in three formations from three decades. They played one after the other with Art. Four or five tunes each time. I can't remember all of them at once. But there were musicians like Freddy Hubbard or Art Farmer. They all played wonderfully. But the sound of the different generations was incredibly different. I don't mean what they played, but how the sound of a sextet was so different. Different instruments maybe, different wind technique, different feeling, very significantly different. I mean, that's where it starts. Only then comes the recording technique and the respective taste how a recording should sound. At the end comes the speaker, who is also a child of his time. There are two things to distinguish about speakers, one is that there has been technical progress, more high frequencies, less distortion and so on. On the other hand, the taste of the time. Where is the journey going? With sports cars, acceleration was impressive 10 years ago. Today, my tax advisor's Tesla accelerates faster than the fastest Porsche 10 years ago. But...it's boring. So other criteria will be found, for cars as for speakers. Horns like Klipsch always have an emotional advantage. So well said KT88, especially coming from a fellow Jazz enthusiast. We change as well over time. I have several fast cars that I no longer drive fast in. I also listen now more to the music, and less for the fidelity. When I was a young man I'd sometimes put stuff on that I didn't even like because it "sounded good." Not so much these days! Thanks for your thoughtful comments! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mark Swearengin said: So well said KT88, especially coming from a fellow Jazz enthusiast. We change as well over time. I have several fast cars that I no longer drive fast in. I also listen now more to the music, and less for the fidelity. When I was a young man I'd sometimes put stuff on that I didn't even like because it "sounded good." Not so much these days! Thanks for your thoughtful comments! Why do we or most of us have to grow old or at least a little older to understand these wisdoms! 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 5:35 PM, rick66 said: added the Chorus2, and Forte1 to my collection. The Chorus 2 is my favorite Fortes are no slouch, and deeper Bass 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossfan Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/18/2023 at 2:55 PM, the real Duke Spinner said: Fortes are no slouch, and deeper Bass I agree. I remember when I bought my Forte 2 speakers. I went to buy a pair of Heresys. My friend had a pair and I loved them. I was curious about other Klipsch speakers. After listening to the heresys first he put on the Forte 2s. My wife and I looked at each and said we have to have those. I still just love the sound of those things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hron61 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Great thread. Nice to hear different points of view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark Swearengin said: Hello everyone! I'm not only new to the Klipsch forum, but I'm also new to Klipsch. I'm a 45-year audiophile who's been into ribbon speakers with subwoofers for the last 25 years, and Martin Logan Electrostatics which I dearly love for the last 3 years. I primarily listen to small combo Jazz, with some Bluegrass and Folk thrown in. I've been intrigued by Klipsch ever since I heard a large pair at Listen Up Audio in Denver, Colorado back in the early 1980's. They played something from Manhiem Steamroller over them, and I was blown away by the huge image and dynamics, but not so much when I had them put on Jazz. The image was too large to seem real to me, but I could understand why the Rockers loved them. I'd always had it in my mind that someday I would pick up a pair for a fun, second system, and about a month ago I did just that when I bought a pair of Forte II's from a Klipsch enthusiast. He demonstrated them from his open garage door, and I very quickly realized they were a lot different than the Klipsch I'd heard years ago. Although they still had that larger-than-life image, they had an accuracy that seemed to rival my beloved electrostatics. He also demonstrated a pair of La Scalas which had an even larger image, but I preferred the Forte's, which seemed to have a tighter, more lifelike image, tighter bass, and just more natural sound to my ears. I played Jazz trumpet for many years, but I could certainly see a rock and roller preferring the bigger brother. I brought the Fortes home, and had a lot of fun with them in my 15x 25 foot room, although I could not get them to match the sound out of his garage despite the much better equipment I was driving them with, and numerous attempts to reposition them. The bass was overwhelming, and the image did not seem to be as cohesive. I suspected the room was a little too small for them. They were fun to use, but when I went back to my Martin Logans I knew I wouldn't be replacing them anytime soon! Several days later a pair of 1980's vintage Heresys showed up in a storage unit for $300, and of course I had to buy them! These were the series I, with what I assumed would be inferior drivers and crossovers compared to the Forte II. I inserted them into my system not even knowing if they worked. The sound that they produced just blew my mind! Crisp and clear with tight imaging and a tremendous soundstage. The acoustic suspension woofer seemed much more accurate than the newer Fortes, and the loss of bass on the lower end was more than made up for by my 12 inch Dynaudio subs when needed. I've done quite a bit of switching back and forth, and my initial impressions still stand. I had at one point thought I might buy a pair of Forte or Heresy IV's, but now I'm wondering if the original Klipsh sound will continue to sound better to me for the types of music I listen to. Although they are different than my electrostatics, they just sound "right" to me, as do the Martin Logans. The differences of both enhance the listening experience of using either type of speaker, whereas the newer Fortes differences act as a distraction. I could live with these little Heresys from here on out despite them being over 30 years old. I can't imagine a change in crossover capacitors enhancing anything. Is there a hard-core group of audiophiles out there that think Klipsch got it right the first time? At this point I feel no need to audition a pair of III's or IV's despite the glowing reviews. I'm using high grade tube gear and superb turntable/cartridges, as well as highly rated cd players. Damn these speakers are fun. They never fail to put a smile on my face! Thoughts? If You like electrostatics... Klipsch just ain't for You. 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 2:52 PM, the real Duke Spinner said: If You like electrostatics... Klipsch just ain't for You. 🙄 It depends on which aspect of electrostats you like. There is one thing they have in common with horns, and that is the large dispersion area compared to normal radial speakers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Swearengin Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 7:52 AM, the real Duke Spinner said: If You like electrostatics... Klipsch just ain't for You. 🙄 Not True. These ain't your granddad's electrostatics! Paired with a sublime piar of Dynadio 12" sublwoofers, they are fantastic. You are right in that the Klipsch speakers have a different sound, but one thing they have in common is both are VERY revealing, allowing you to hear every subtle nuance. These modern Martin Logans are also incredibly dynamic and are not anything like the old 70's era Quads. I like both and appreciate what each brings to the table...er...listening room! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Swearengin Posted July 13, 2023 Author Share Posted July 13, 2023 On 6/29/2023 at 11:53 AM, KT88 said: It depends on which aspect of electrostats you like. There is one thing they have in common with horns, and that is the large dispersion area compared to normal radial speakers. Agree, they are also extremely revealing and dynamic! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Mark Swearengin said: Not True. These ain't your granddad's electrostatics! Paired with a sublime piar of Dynadio 12" sublwoofers, they are fantastic. You are right in that the Klipsch speakers have a different sound, but one thing they have in common is both are VERY revealing, allowing you to hear every subtle nuance. These modern Martin Logans are also incredibly dynamic and are not anything like the old 70's era Quads. I like both and appreciate what each brings to the table...er...listening room! That is probably the case that today's ESLs have more dynamics than the old Quad ESL57s. But one must not forget one thing. Very few of today's old quads have been properly restored. The few places that have done it right report almost unbelievable dynamics and excellent bass reproduction of the ESL57 after the restoration. In fact, today's Martin Logan have much more dynamics than most old unrestored or poorly restored ESL57s. But the few very well restored ESL57s show how good these speakers were in their younger days. Unlike normal speakers and horns, the bass of the ESL is also a dipole. The further away the Quad or other dipoles are from the wall, the fuller and more powerful the bass becomes. The Quad ESL57 produces a clean and powerful 40Hz when positioned away from the wall. Of course, the volume cannot be compared to a horn bass, but the bass is articulated with similar precision and can be felt as a pressure wave. http://loudspeaker-repair-service.reromanus.net/refurbish_quad57.htm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idontknow Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I've never jumped on the newer is better band wagon. I enjoy my Heresy II's and Forte I's just fine. I think the Forte III and IV were more of a let down. Also, Klipsch tried to soften the top end of the newer speakers and the way the were originally is why they were what they were. They didn't need to be anything else other than to help keep the business flowing. All the newer Heritage are way overpriced now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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