prodj101 Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 well, after my new record on vinyl came today (Herbie Hancock- Secrets, 180 gram), I have realized just how superior vinyl is to CD's. so much warmer, plus style points to the 50th power. there is nothing lik setting the tonearm down on the record and sittin back listening to movies. cd's are too perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Welcome to the Rat Pack. It's not a bad thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Congrats on your discovery.... Since I've got my turntable I think I may have listened to about 5 CD's total. Everthing else has been Vinyl. The best part is finding great vinyl at ridculously cheap prices that clean up nicely and sound fantastic. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 "...there is nothing like setting the tonearm down on the record and sittin back listening to movies..." So, how's the video on that Hancock album? I guess vinyl has really come far. I didn't know they were pumping video through the stylus now. "CD's are too perfect." Somehow, this warrants a response -- but I have no idea how to reply to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 I guess we are beyond the period where folks were dumping lps and rebuying albums on CD. There seems to be a new generation of record lovers that are discovering vinyl for the first time and an older generation gravitating back to the music and format of their youth. With SACD/DVD-A slowing starting to provide an optical alternative to CD could we be headed to an ironic point in time when high rez optical and vinyl are desired and the old CD is the dinosaur? I'm not sure if the new generation is rebuying albums on vinyl but they do seem to be discovering old recordings and buying them on the old format vs CD. Where vinyl has always been appreciated by the audiophiles it seems to be especially popular with the "alternative"--now pretty mainstream sounding--bands. The popularity of post Nirvana bands and punk bands have created a bigger market for influential post punk lps and even hardcore punk lps than I perceive these bands ever enjoyed in their day. It seemed the only folks that cared about current high dollar lps like "This is Boston Not LA" were young skate punks that looked the part or college radio DJs of which not all really enjoyed the machine gun drumming and anti-Reagan screaming of hardcore. Today you can hear the poppier old punk bands like AGENT ORANGE on PS2 games all over suburban America. I remember loving the new features of CD: * portability * random access * no scratches and static pops * durability (relative to lp) * all things that drove me crazy about records and lead me to making cassette tapes--although no random access on tape. More recently I've enjoyed the ease of making compilation CD and a jukebox on my PC. I have always had a special nostalgia and collectibility attraction to record jackets and have continued to buy lps throughout the CD era but my collection has been divided between vintage albums on vinyl and modern albums on CD. It hasn't been until I got my Cornwalls and started thinking of upgrading my electronics and TT that I became interested in vinyl for fidelity. When CD first came out I remember Paul McCartney commenting how the CD versions of the old Beatles LPs just didn't have the same sound but I never really was too concerned, because I didn't have the equipment to fully appreciate vinyl. I had to use vinyl if I wanted to listen to certain favorite lps but I often would buy the CD if the lp was more than the CD. I picked up 30 lps this week during a trip to Berkley after work. I found a lot of nice condition lps for $1 that I wanted after searching through about 2-3000 in the clearance bin...2 Scrawl lps, 3 decent Bob Dylan lps, 2 Killing Joke lps, Tragically Hip's first lp and several others including a 60's Bob Newhart &Cheech & Chong to add to my comedy collection. The more pop or REM influenced indie bands that turned major label seem to my favs in the $1 bin...enjoyable but cheap and not necessarily collectible. True indie label records from the early 80's are hard to find and often expensive. I continue to notice that the record bins are starting to fill with sealed/new lps...I don't think SST ever stopped printing the mainstays like Black Flay and the Minutemen. A lot of the classic but low volume lps are hard to find vintage but pretty common in 180g. I'm also noting that new releases are starting to be more common and affordable (Wilco, Tori Amos, Guided By Voices, Yo la Tango). When buying new releases I'm caught between wanting the portability and conviencence of CD and the fidelity potential and collectability of vinyl. For example, I picked up the new Soft Boys album on CD because I wanted to listen to it while I drove all over The Bay Area...I just couldn't wait until I got home! This is a great lp by the way...especially if you're a big Robyn Hitchcock fan already. RECORD SLEEVES - any favorites? The DiscWasher VIP seems pretty good. I think I need to add these to my more collectible records...certainly not all my records but a few hundred. I use the DISC DOCTOR brushes and fluid for really dirty lps and just a DiscWasher system for most. I've noticed this can add static so I probably need a static gun. I'd like to have a vacum cleaner but I still need a new TT and Cart. better than that. Check out "Mr. Kennedy" from the Soft Boys new lp. You can sample songs on CDNOW.com and probably other CD sales sites. -KJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 ---------------- On 1/23/2003 8:51:19 PM tbabb wrote: The best part is finding great vinyl at ridculously cheap prices that clean up nicely and sound fantastic. - tb ---------------- I agree because these characteristics aren't always easy to find all in one lp. Low production lps are becoming "collectible" and more expensive than CDs...especially the ones that clean up and sound fantastic. The problem with records is that they are easily damaged: scratches (especially 60's and older when we used heavy needles and stacked 45's), surface noise, groove wear and their jackets often can be deteriated from ring wear and shelf wear in general. I've seen people buy records, copy them to tape and never take them out their sleeves again. These are the folks I want to sell me their records. I got a LEFTE BANK lp from a person like this for XMAS...wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Oh yeah...can we call them "records" again instead of vinyl? A band's new album is available on record or CD. I like spinning "hot wax" but I collect records. I put vinyl on the side of my house...err uh...I have bricks and wood trim but that's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 "...there is nothing like setting the tonearm down on the record and sittin back listening to movies..." that was a pretty bad typo on my part, but can you blame me? I've gotten 10 hours of sleep in the last 4 days. but the herbie certainly does sound great: listened to the whole thing as soon as I got home from school (maybe 40 mins?). but at any rate, I'm not sure how good my turntable is, maybey ou guys can tell me. it's a decently old pioneer direct drive that has like a solid wood body, and steel platter. it weighs about 25 pounds. I got it for 2 dollars from a garage sale, so it was deffinatly worth it. And actually, I have boughten some records I already own on vinyl. ones that come to mind are Exodus and Rastaman Vibration. I got a Cannonball Aderley record for christmas that is in very nice condition considering it's age (1962 I think), and I have just been addin to it slowly. I have 10 or 11 now. I never realized how quickly vinyl builds up weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 "Welcome to the Rat Pack." actually, I really hate the rat pack, that is the rat pack at our school basically what they are, is what me and my friends have started calling the kids that buy guitars, skateboards, and what not but never actually do anything with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 ---------------- On 1/23/2003 6:31:35 PM prodj101 wrote: well, after my new record on vinyl came today (Herbie Hancock- Secrets, 180 gram), I have realized just how superior vinyl is to CD's. so much warmer, plus style points to the 50th power. there is nothing lik setting the tonearm down on the record and sittin back listening to movies. cd's are too perfect. ---------------- ProDJ, It's not too late for you. Most of those who have led you down this evil path are too far gone to be helped. But you're young; you can be saved. But you must do as I say: Destroy your vinyl records and the "paraphenalia" you use to spin their supposed "magic". Seek only "the light" (laser light that is). Seek and ye shall find! (the near total absence of background noise and distortion) Remember: CD -- "Christian Device". LP -- "Lost Paradise". You have been warned!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Ok... I have a question that is going to sound rather lame, or even offensive to many.... Do they still make records? I am truly sorry, I honestly don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I remember the days of vinyl very well... I would play a record two or three times, make a recording onto cassette, and tuck away the lp for posterity. My biggest complaint with vinyl... all it took was one small "pop" or noise from a miniscule scratch, and the whole illusion was shattered: with cds, using well-matched components (including cables; yes, they do make a difference), the illusion that the performance is happening in my living room, or that I have been somehow transported to the recording venue, is much more maintainable. I suppose my components may not have been high-endy enough at that time, but I was never, ever, fooled into believing I was listening to live music with vinyl. I was overjoyed when someone thought up the cd, and I no longer had to go through the cleaning routine, or worry about scratches. And that godawful hiss... Just my take on vinyl vs. cd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I remember gathering around the FIRST CD player in the Bay Area in a high-end shop with a pal of mine. Everybody "oooohed and "ahhhed" over the litte silver disc and the exotic machine. Then they played the damn thing--most were so caught up in the techonolgy that they continued to "ooooh" and "ahhh" but I remember saying out loud "does anyone else think this sounds like sh*t?" I think all CDs continued to sound like sh*t for another ten years or so--but over the last decade or so I've had to grudgingly admit they can be pretty damn good--not ALL of them, but enough so that I went out and bought a mega-buck CD player a few years ago. And what's this anal fixation about an occaisional click or pop? I go to a great jazz club that has a f*ucking ice machine 6 feet from the stage that dumps a load of ice right in the middle of a John Heard bass solo almost every time I go. John calls it his "avant garge percussionist" and we all laugh. So a little click in the middle of a Kenny Dorham solo doesn't bother me in the least--what matters is that what's coming our of my Cornwalls sounds like a trumpet, not a shrill, tizzy mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Good post, Allan. MY findings as well down to the comparo at the club. I will add that a good setup and careful handling of LPs will result in a lot less surface noise than you think. And a good TT, arm, and cartridge (not to mention phono stage) will go a LOOOONG way in bringing about the positive results with analog. One of my current setups brings about the background noise too much to my liking with the other is amazingly quiet in this regard. It seems to be a cartridge deal with TT A. btw, Allan.... after 25 minutes on the phone with the local PO, we mangaed to locate the records at the house next door between the screen door and main. Trouble is, it has snowed here like a fiend with the resulting humidity, not to mention RECORD cold (coldest in a decade) in the single digits! LORD. The package was marked 301 and the door was marked 302. I am worried about the best way to bring them to 68F and dry heat after a week of that. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I think the "cold storage" will do the records no harm at all--if it were 98 degrees in the middle of July we might have a problem! Plus, the records were pretty well packed, so I'm betting they're just fine. ENJOY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I guess I'm neutral...I love LPs and CDs! There's no sense in going into the pros and cons to each format; it's already been touched on by the previous posts. As a teen in the early 70's, I always bought LPs, recorded them onto cassette tape, and put away the records. Later while stationed in Germany, I bought a whole new audio system, including a Denon DP-62L direct-drive 'table and Stanton 981 HZS MM cartridge, I rediscovered LPs all over again. In '85 I bought my first CD player, and was impressed overall with what I heard (and oh, what convenience!). There were alot of crummy sounding CDs, though, and the Digital Time Lens on my Carver DTL-100 seemed to cure the harshness somewhat. It wasn't until the mid 90's when I replaced the Stanton with a Sumiko Blue Point high-output MC...it was like cleaning a dirty window and seeing a whole new world outside! Since then I've played my LPs over and over, and have bought quite a few new direct-to-disc/digital/180-gram vinyl albums (and my Nakamichi sits mute). But I also continue to purchase audiophile-quality CDs from Telarc, Chesky, Dorian, Stereophile, APO, Mobile Fidelity, etc., and to my ears these CDs sound wonderful, even on my antiquated Carver SD/A-450 linear 1-bit player. Since I'm in need of another tube preamp, I haven't used my 'table in a year. I plan on upgrading my Denon with a belt-drive 'table from Rega, Pro-Ject, or Music Hall (and continue to use Sumiko MCs), and replace my CD player with a tube output player from either JoLida, Ajoe Tjoeb, Cary Audio, etc. I enjoy both formats, regardless of their pros and cons...and when I do buy another preamp, I'll be listening to cassettes I recorded in Dolby C on my Nakamichi again as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 LOL, the ice machine. Whats a pop and a hiss. At a live performance you have all sorts of noise and distractions, people talking, dude spillin beer on me etc. m00n, Yes they do still make records. I just bought the Impulse records rerelease of Coltrane Live at the Village Vanguard Again. I haven't listened to much Coltrane before and it's going to take a little getting used to. Kinda like the first time I had black coffee, a little strong at first but lots of potential for enjoyment. A number of newer bands on indie labels release albums on vinyl, although I think a number of them do it for its sub culture cool factor rather then the sound quality. CD's are just not capable of reproducing the high freq's as well as a good vinyl setup. Due to the fact that all CD's are a 44.1kHz sample rate the highest freq they can hold is 22.05kHz and this is only as a triangle wave. 22.05kHz is obviously out of the range of human hearing but harmonics in the higher freq's effect the sound of those that we can hear. Whats worse is the triangle wave distortion can begin occuring as low as 17kHz, a freq which I can still hear quite easily. Here is a pic of what this looks like, http://bellsouthpwp.net/I/n/Invidiosulus/images/gallery/freq.jpg This is why DVD audio and SACD sound better, they have higher sample rates and thus elimenate most if not all of the distortion in the audible range. Btw, I do listen to CD's a whole lot so I'm not really bashing them, just trying to be factual about how they work. I guess I am kinda rambling but this is a subject I'm kinda interested in. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 ---------------- On 1/23/2003 6:31:35 PM prodj101 wrote: well, after my new record on vinyl came today (Herbie Hancock- Secrets, 180 gram), I have realized just how superior vinyl is to CD's. so much warmer, plus style points to the 50th power. there is nothing lik setting the tonearm down on the record and sittin back listening to movies. cd's are too perfect. ---------------- Uh Oh, put this thing away now. I fear it's already to late, but this thing can easily become an addiction. My advice is to toss tht TT and send the Lp's dircetly to me so they can be desposed of properly. Opening new vinyl can be a religious experience, oh what fun.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 CD's are lame to me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Yeah, pops and ticks on records ain't no thang! It's like going to a movie and havin 47 smart-*** teeny-boppers (no offense, ProDJ; yer cool) right behind you. All snortin and fartin and belchin like my old mule, betsy*. boy, I just LOVE that! *betsy is a ficticious character created by the writer of this post strictly for dramatic effect. any resemblence to mules living or dead is purely coincidental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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