Aric Audio 300B amplifier

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 9/29/2023 at 4:18 PM, Shakeydeal said:

Not sure what your speakers are, but if 100 db or greater, you are foolin yourself.

KLF 30 and KH   .......It's all about Transients

Flea Power can not deliver that instant 800 Watt's. 🙃

[Shakeydeal]

Why do you need big power on khorns when 5 watts will play louder (with excellent dynamics) than you can even stand to be in the same room? Not to mention the better sound quality a low power tube amp will get you over a SS behemoth.

 

 

[henry4841]

45 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Why do you need big power on khorns when 5 watts will play louder (with excellent dynamics) than you can even stand to be in the same room? Not to mention the better sound quality a low power tube amp will get you over a SS behemoth.

 

 

You can show someone on a scope that there listening level with horns never exceeds 1 watt and many will still say they think they need 800 watts. Not worth wasting my time on this forum trying to convince someone otherwise anymore. The KLF30 has a sensitivity rating of 102db after a quick google. That is with just 1 watt. Five watt amplifiers are more than enough with our horns. Bass is better with some SS PP amplifiers but it has nothing to do with their power rating but rather their design. Some designs have better control over the bass speaker.

[the real Duke Spinner]

57 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Why do you need big power on khorns when 5 watts will play louder (with excellent dynamics) than you can even stand to be in the same room? Not to mention the better sound quality a low power tube amp will get you over a SS behemoth.

 

 

TRANSIENTS

[Shakeydeal]

1 hour ago, henry4841 said:

You can show someone on a scope that there listening level with horns never exceeds 1 watt and many will still say they think they need 800 watts. Not worth wasting my time on this forum trying to convince someone otherwise anymore. The KLF30 has a sensitivity rating of 102db after a quick google. That is with just 1 watt. Five watt amplifiers are more than enough with our horns. Bass is better with some SS PP amplifiers but it has nothing to do with their power rating but rather their design. Some designs have better control over the bass speaker.

 

What we have here is someone who cherishes volume over quality, but is foolish enough to not understand he can have both with a fraction of the power. You are right, no point in banging your head against the wall with that sort.

[kevinmi]

Don't transients live under bridges and overpasses? I can understand wanting to entertain transients with your music, but does it require 200 watts? I'm sure that all the transients in my neighborhood could hear my system if I put my KHorns on the back porch powered by my Cary 300b amps. Just sayin'

[TasDom]

[OO1]

[henry4841]

15 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

TRANSIENTS

Not to pick on you but Nelson Pass has shown, and still does show, that transients, peaks, do not exceed 1 watt on a scope in his rather large listening room at a volume where most say turn it down with less efficient speakers than our horns. Just facts most anyone with the ability and equipment can prove. He has stated this many times in his online videos. Trust me I am sure Nelson has a scope capable of showing transients, peaks.

 

A layman can prove this with a simple VOM using ohms law himself but not with the accuracy of a scope. But close enough to prove my point. Turn you music as loud as you care to and measure the peak AC volts on a decent meter. It must show 2.83vs on peaks for 1 watt. I have been called by many in the past of listening too loud at a volume with my LaScala's and never measured 2.83vs AC on peaks. Average is much less. Even if you clip a 1 watt SET tube amplifier you will never know it as with a SS amplifier clipping. The Decware Zen with it's 2 watts is a favorite with horns with an almost 2 year wait period to get one. That is the last time I looked. 

 

Not to argue, I was in your camp of needing mega watt amplifiers for decades until I learned better. I thought and used a 190 watt per channel power amp with my LaScala for 3 decades thinking I needed all that power. Having more 5 watt amplifiers than I can remember now I know better. That 5 watt SET 300B of Shakey's is a beast with our speakers. He has enough power for hearing damage without clipping now. The hype manufacturers of amps to promote more watts is better is a selling point. Been that way for decades to fool the masses but not serious audiophiles and electronic geeks who know better. 

 

This is the reason a site like this one is nice. To cut through the hype and state facts. The knowledgeable audiophiles and electronic guys on this forum are just stating what they know against all the hype of advertisement. With our horns think quality over quantity when it comes to watts. 

[the real Duke Spinner]

Not to belabour the point But my system sounds much better with some *azz* behind it... I use a dynamic range expander ,dBX 120 synth  and Crown MacroTech has it covered. 😀

[the real Duke Spinner]

20 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

What we have here is someone who cherishes volume over quality, but is foolish enough to not understand he can have both with a fraction of the power. You are right, no point in banging your head against the wall with that sort.

I worked in several recording studios ...Ocean Way for one ..YMMV 😀

[henry4841]

7 minutes ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

Not to belabour the point But my system sounds much better with some *azz* behind it... I use a dynamic range expander ,dBX 120 synth  and Crown MacroTech has it covered. 😀

Not knowing your age but it seems we both thought alike at one time. I bought a DBX expander 40 years ago and used it for many years. Now I take everything I can out of the audio circuit wanting no manipulation of the audio signal. You will not get any closer to a wire with amplification except by using a SET amplifier. As simple as it gets with few parts. The drawback is one needs efficient speakers to use a SET. All boils down to our speakers are excellent for 5 watt SETs. Klipsch horns rule. 

 

But if you are happy with what you have one only has to please themselves and not us old folks on a social forum who think they know better. The main point is what you see as azz is just the design of the amplifier you are using. SET's do not have the best control of the woofer like a well made SS PP amplifier. The SS PP amplifier does not need to be a mega watt one,  just the typical class A 25 watt one is all one needs as far as power. Knowledgeable electronic guys understand for a transistor to sound the best it needs to be pushed to almost it's limit. Within reason of course keeping a long life. Class A/B is just idling at rest whereas a class A amplifier the transistors are being run at something like 60% let's say. Do not take the 60% figure as word, but just to get the idea of a hard working boy is a happy boy as the designers of amplifiers say. 

[the real Duke Spinner]

I use KLF 30

KHorns And JBL 4430

The JBLs have far superior resolution, but demand big Power

[the real Duke Spinner]

6 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Not to pick on you but Nelson Pass has shown, and still does show, that transients, peaks, do not exceed 1 watt on a scope in his rather large listening room at a volume where most say turn it down with less efficient speakers than our horns. Just facts most anyone with the ability and equipment can prove. He has stated this many times in his online videos. Trust me I am sure Nelson has a scope capable of showing transients, peaks.

 

A layman can prove this with a simple VOM using ohms law himself but not with the accuracy of a scope. But close enough to prove my point. Turn you music as loud as you care to and measure the peak AC volts on a decent meter. It must show 2.83vs on peaks for 1 watt. I have been called by many in the past of listening too loud at a volume with my LaScala's and never measured 2.83vs AC on peaks. Average is much less. Even if you clip a 1 watt SET tube amplifier you will never know it as with a SS amplifier clipping. The Decware Zen with it's 2 watts is a favorite with horns with an almost 2 year wait period to get one. That is the last time I looked. 

 

Not to argue, I was in your camp of needing mega watt amplifiers for decades until I learned better. I thought and used a 190 watt per channel power amp with my LaScala for 3 decades thinking I needed all that power. Having more 5 watt amplifiers than I can remember now I know better. That 5 watt SET 300B of Shakey's is a beast with our speakers. He has enough power for hearing damage without clipping now. The hype manufacturers of amps to promote more watts is better is a selling point. Been that way for decades to fool the masses but not serious audiophiles and electronic geeks who know better. 

 

This is the reason a site like this one is nice. To cut through the hype and state facts. The knowledgeable audiophiles and electronic guys on this forum are just stating what they know against all the hype of advertisement. With our horns think quality over quantity when it comes to watts. 

I have a Rack of Hewlett Packard test equipment including several Scopes

Distortion Analysers ..Etc

[henry4841]

2 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

I have a Rack of Hewlett Packard test equipment including several Scopes

Distortion Analysers ..Etc

Well, do the test yourself and see if Nelson Pass knows what he is talking about. You can be right and Nelson be wrong. Just because electronic engineers and geeks travel from all over the world to see him at the Burning Amp Festival held every year does not necessary mean he knows what he is talking about. He does not even have an electronic engineer degree, he majored in physics. Electronics was just a hobby for him in college. You are not saying I do not know what I am talking about but rather one of the, if not the best, audio engineer in the 20th and 21st century. I think most knowledgeable people in the audio field consider him the best and an audio engineer even if he does not have a piece of paper saying so.

 

Personally, I am just an uneducated redneck from the deep south that consider myself just an electronic geek that has owned LaScala's since "86. I just play with electronics for fun, mostly audio gear. I now have around 25 different working amplifiers with many more boards and disassembled amplifiers I have tried over the years. The working ones are the ones I consider some of the best and worth keeping. I rotate them in and out of my system depending on my mood. I use to listen loud and never exceeded over a few watts any time I have decided to do the test using my LaScala's. Just me and my test, believe what you want. Makes no difference to me either way.  

 

Just so you know I am not against high power amps for the last few weeks I have been using a class A/B SS 150 watt per channel amplifier along with a tube pre during the hot months we have in the deep south. It is called the Honey Badger, a project at the diyaudio.com designed by some of the best engineers and hobbyist in the world. Not a cheap build costing me upwards of $1,000 to complete. I do have it biased so that it stays in class A for a few watts, where it will never get out of using our speakers. Great sounding amplifier but not a SET 300B. There is no better midrange and vocals with any other type of amplification. 

[Shakeydeal]

4 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

Not to belabour the point But my system sounds much better with some *azz* behind it... I use a dynamic range expander ,dBX 120 synth  and Crown MacroTech has it covered. 😀

All that speaks volumes. You need say no more….

[RickD]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:02 AM, OO1 said:

how bout posting videos of what these Aric Audio 300B amps sound like  

They'll sound about as good as sound your computer puts out.

[RickD]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:55 PM, Shakeydeal said:

Why do you need big power on khorns when 5 watts will play louder (with excellent dynamics) than you can even stand to be in the same room? Not to mention the better sound quality a low power tube amp will get you over a SS behemoth.

 

 

I've got a 200W per channel McIntosh MA352 driving my Khorns, It's rare occasion that the power meters ever gets to 2 watts. I chose this hybrid amp because of it's pleasing sound. I've got a 300B amp diy project in the basement that uses 8 300b tubes and puts out 1.5 watts per channel. Should be adequate for the Khorns.

[Aric Audio]

How are 8 300B tubes giving you 1.5 watts per channel unless this is some very abstract biasing scheme? A 300B tube, driven properly with peaks entering into A1 can easily provide 10 watts with excellent sound quality, not 5 watts. To remain linear, the 300B should be driven with a low impedance driver and at least 350 plates volts, or higher if cathode biased. With a 35 watt plate dissipation, 7 watts is the minimum figure each should give with normal biasing. Would you mind sharing how the 8 300Bs are producing such low power? I’m intrigued and confused. Aric

[Shakeydeal]

Glad you dropped by @Aric Audio….😀