Tom Mobley Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 But Dean, you're always "flat broke at the moment." Doesn't seem to slow you down much. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 TONY : I'm thinkin it's probably cheiper for you to fly jeff down there and bring your new amps ( which look great by the way ) with him, than the shipping cost of those monsters . lol How much do you think just one of those babys weigh ? sure is a lot of iron, inside and out . I'll tell you one thing thats for sure , if he ever goes mainstream with his creations they will fetch a buck deeper than i'll be able to afford. Hope my serial # is 001 , could have a collectors item on my hands . lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 That's really true, technically, I'm always "broke", unless I sell something -- then I'm off and running again. Usually, I can manage to throw a few hundred towards a deal, since I wait a few months or so before trading gear around. Sometimes, I even sell off an item from my other 'hobby'. These amps were out of my reach unless the Apollos went first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 they are fifty pounds each, one hundred in total. I will pay about $2.15/lb to get them all the way down here, not bad really. I am chomping at the bit to plug these babies in! tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 TONY: I have no doudt your a little excited , hope your power grid can handle the load .lol I'm getting a little itchy to get my sfuff but i'd rather wait till craig and jeff are finished and satisfied with the results first. If there happy i'm happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 My Pete.... On the preamp side, to be honest, there appear only to be so many ways one can build a simple 6SN7 preamp with a minimal amount of parts. And to be even more totally honest, I have NEVER heard a BAD 6SN7 preamp. Ever. It's a great tube and pretty hard to foul up, all things be told. I have heard some 6SN7 preamp sound better than others, but never one that I thought I couldnt live with. Jean-Francois is going with a twin choke, SRPP, configuration that is fully tube rectified with a clean layout with attention to detail. Low impedance output. The iron is good (300 Series). The parts are all of quality with Kiwame, Vishay, Dale, or Audio Note Tantalum resistors. Jensen Copper Foil Oils or Auricaps(actually, the person can supply any cap he wants if he provides it). Solens are used as well as Black GAtes and JJ for the higher voltage positions (JJ Bypassed with Solen 630v). Wiring is solid core Cardas. There is a solid core heavy duty ground bus going around the chassis. Noble, Black Beauty ALPS, or DACT attenuators. In listening tests, Jeff reports this preamp sounds VERY open with an extremely large soundstage (larger and more open than his Arthur Loesch inspired pre). He reports it is very relaxed sounding with nice bass and airy, extende treble. And these latest tests are with RCA 6SN7. With some better 6SN7 or 5692, we are talking more differences. Also, this current unit is using Auricaps and Kiwames. With AN Tantalums and Jensen Copper Foil Oils, expect more change. I think the biggest change will be from people moving from 12AU7, 12AX7, 6922, 6DJ8 preamps. Also, you just dont see tube rectification on most units. I will be giving a full review in the next few weeks (the Jensen Oils version). As for his amps, I heard these amps in the 300B version and they were perhaps the most detailed SET amps I have ever heard. That being said, they were using $1300 worth of TFA-204 COBALT MQ iron with every tweak imaginable. Even John Tucker got in on the act with some tweaks to the input stage. They are going back to 2A3 which I like better anyway. Also, I believe they are returning to the HORUS design with Nickel MQ iron instead of the $$$$ COBALT. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triode Pete Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 kh, Indeed the integrity of the build & parts used is fantastic. I've been told (& actually experienced myself) that the secret of "killer" preamps lies in the power supply. A good, REGULATED, tube power supply IMHO sounds best. It appears that the J-F 6sn7 preamp is not regulated. A potential tweak to improve?? What will be your reference to compare this pre-amp to? There are a ton of very expensive (not necessarily better) pre-amps out there....Lamm, Manley, Loesch, CAT, etc. I agree with you...I really have not found a 12AU7, 12AX7 pre-amp that I ever liked. The 6SN7 tube is a good one...but be careful...some JAN, red-based 5692 (RCA included) are extremely rugged & durable but may not be most musical of all. I have a pair of 300B SET mono's that use a pair of RCA 5692's as drivers...very nice but do not compare to my 2A3 SET's with Sylvania 6SL7 drivers. Killer musicality with 2A3's! I really think you need horns with 2A3's & especially 45's (which I consider a nice, polite tube). 300B's are for the less efficient crowd (Tannoy, Alon, etc. who really do not have a choice). BTW - Thank you for your e-mail regarding IC's. Kevin H. gave me a return call last nite - ordered 2 sets of the Superlatives...can't wait to try out. Whaddya think about cable burn-in??? One of the audio loonies in my club has a "cable burner" that I can get my hands on this weekend. Audios, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 This should be intresting, i remember a while back getting trampled on in another thread for mentioning cable burn in. I'll enjoy seeing the approach takein this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 Well, the Pantheon 6SN7 pre is of the camp that believes that active regulation can bleach the sound or bring some sterility if not done in the best possile fashion. As you probably know, there are two camps here with one believing this can hurt the sound and the other thinking that active regulation is better. Many of the purists are opting away from it. When it comes right down to it, it seems that good active regulation is a positive when performed exactly right. Doing in the best fashion can be very costly and usually requires a separate chassis with a more complex circuit than the preamp itself. The cost of such a unit will double. On the other hand, poorly done regulation will likely bring poor results with perhaps a more bleached and sterile result. This unit has robust filtering with dual chokes and excellent caps. I believe the "less is more" is a good compromise here. Ironically, Jeff seemed to prefer this preamp to his dual chassis Loesch Reference pre. Well, I have a preamp with 6SL7 and 6SN7 tubes, so I am pretty familiar with both. I personally like the 5692 VERY much in the preamp stage. That being said, I currently have a preamp that has the 5691 in the line stage (it's a 6SL7 line with a 6SN7 CF). On the amp front, with the 6SN7 Moondogs, I have found a quality Sylvania 6SN7WGT leading into the CBS or Sylv 5692 yields the most musical results. I am a big proponent of the 5692/5692 even though others have moved away. I think some versions of these tubes offer amazing sound. Although many say that ALL the 5692 came from RCA with different branding of CBS, Sylvania etc, I think these tubes have a tendency to sound different. I definitely have a favorite of that lineup. kh ps- I am a total believer in burn-in of gear. And new cables can sound like dreck. Let the naysayers keep their beliefs. This has been my experience in auditioning countless cables both new and used since the 80s. I once made the mistake of judging new cables. No more. I will say that some are worse than others in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I personally believe all the 5692's were made by RCA. I've had three different versions of this tube, and outside of the color of the base, they are completely identical in construction. More importantly, I couldn't tell a squat of difference in the sound -- and hated all three equally. I think they sound thick and plodding through the RF-7's. My favorite 6SN7, at least in the AE-3 DJH -- is the Sylvania 6SN7WGT Chrome-top. What I was wondering...is if the Pantheon uses fully regulated power supplies and/or direct coupling between the gain and output stages (no capacitor)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 I have six Sylvania 6SN7WGT Chrome tops from the 60s. IT is a very clean tube. But your experience with the 5692 is a bit problematic. I have had a number of these tubes and they can and DO sound different. There were different runs; Different years. And different materials will be the result. I tend to believe all WERE made by RCA these days. I had a hand selected match black dot, red base RCA 5691/5692 set given to me by Dennis Had/Tom Hoffman in 90. These were some of the best tubes I ever had. I auditioned, side by side different runs of 5692 from CBS, RCA, and Sylvania. All three NOS but broken in (tubes courtesy of Jack G.) The Sylvania 5692, which I had two pairs, sounded the best in the Moondogs being run by Sylvania 6SN7WGT Chrome tops. Second best was the CBS 5692 from the 60s. To say these 5692 are ALL bad and all the same, is incorrect in my view. This might be the case with your use of the AE-3. I use this tube in amps and preamps and found it to be VERY nice. TWo of them back to back is a BIT much however. I sure didnt like two 5692 in my Moondogs. I thought I just discussed the PS in the post above? It is a VERY, Very beefy supply but opts to not go the active regulation approach for simplicity. As for the preamp, it has NO coupling cap between the two 6SN7. The output is cap coupled. Btw, the Black Gate bypass caps on the Kiwame resistors ended up being removed as this produced the best sound. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Sorry Kelly, I actually missed your post after Dales, as I had my edit window up for a while here at work before I posted. Thanks for answering the questions. Strange about the 5692's, I just couldn't hear any difference -- kind of like I couldn't hear any difference with the cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 well that confirms that ole' dean-o is deaf! LOL! I hear differences when I swap most anything in my system. tubes, cables, etc. are they real or imagined? I do not know...I stay with whatever sounds best to me and live in happy ignorance. warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Are the Sylvania clear-top 6NS7 green labeled ones? It probably varies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 The ones I am referring to (and I will kick myself once again) are the 60s Yellow Lettering. I have a picture of them (and all the 5692) on the 6SN7 review page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Aw rats, I meant the Sylvania 6NS7 chrome-tops that Dean brought up. I was wondering if they are green label. Whoops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Kelly, I seem to be the only one who has opted for the British version of 6SN7 drivers, I am currently using a combination of Brimar 6SN7GT tubes of 50's and 60's vintage which I fell provide good drive, low freq. definition and air. Is anyone interested in test swapping a set of their favorite (four needed for Moondogs) 6SN7 tubes to compare and evaluate sonic flavor. I am currently awaiting delivery of a rare pair of Mullard 6SN7(ECC33 tubes) and very anxious to find out what they bring to the table sonicly. I would welcome the chance to evaluate Sylvania Chrome tops in my Moondog circuit and system. Each persons total system, with all of it's components, will influence one's view of the 6SN7s performance, but I'd like to learn more about these driver tubes without always having to buy first, listen later. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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