Kudret Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I am finally a proud owner of 84 walnut Cornwalls. I picked them up two days ago and they are in very good condition, except the velcro holding the grills has come off of the grills completely. Any suggestions here?? I will also follow Andys (HDBRbuilder) recommendation from one of the earlier posts to treat them with boiled linseed oil at the first opportunity. Now, how do they sound? I first hooked them up to my Scott 299A and I am really impressed by the clarity and the smoothness of the mids and highs, however I find the bass to be loose. Then I connected them to the higher powered 299C and although the bass has improved, I feel there is still room for improvement. The 299A has Mullard 7189 tubes and all the other tubes are Teles. For 299C, 7591s are HHcott brand and the other tubes are again Teles. The speaker wire I am using is a 12ga Home Depot wire. My next project will be to replace the speaker wire with Belden 89259. The placement of the speakers is not perfect either. They are about 6 feet away from the rear wall. Placing them closer to the corner and replacing the speaker wire with Belden 89259 will probably improve the bass but I am wondering how significant this improvement will be. Id love to hear from other Scott owners about their experiences with Cornwalls. Any other suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Hi Kudret, I had the same velcro problem with my heresies when they arrived and I just used some superglue on the little velcro tab on the grill. You might also try a hot glue gun though I don't know firsthand whether or not it would work. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 I just bought some additional two-piece velco squares and replaced the unstuck old ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 With the EICO HF-81 and more 77 Cornwalls, the bass is very nice. In fact, it is about the best lower midrange on down, at least best of the pp amps. The actual BEST bass regarding definition is from my 2A3 SET Monoblocks with MagneQuest DS-025 output iron. Still, I could live with the vintage RCA EL-84 bass. As for the placement, your bass should become more pronounced but I find the bass actually tightens up when moved away from the wall. I have not heard the 299A yet. The 81 has really nice bass. What kind of music are you listening to? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 congratulation!!!!!!!!! i would'nt worry about changing speaker wire as yet, a couple of days listening is hardly enough time to get a feel for your new found toys.give them some time to settle down,and become climatise in their new surrondings you might be suprised what comes out after a while, the linseed oil will rejuvinate the look , just make sure you dont go heavy handed when applying your coat. placement is esential and this you will have to determine for yourself over time, and even interchanging the different amps could affect how they sound. i've got a 299 and i'm very happy with the result i'm getting. klipsch cornwall!! welcome to a work in progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Congrats on the Cornwalls, kudret! They're exceptional horns, and I think you'll enjoy them. I have no tube amplification experience, but I found that placement closest to the corners of the walls and toed in some will deepen the bass response quite a bit (worked for me). Mine are all original; do you think you might want to replace the crossovers with ALK or equivelant? I also noticed quite an improvement in the sound of my CWs with Orbeck Stratti speaker cable (11 AWG): see AudiogoN.com for a description and to order. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Kudret, I also ran a Scott tube amp(LK-48) on my Cornwalls as well as my Klipschorns and while it had a sweet midrange and nicely rolled off highs I also thought the bass to be a little on loose side-especially with newer bass heavy music.Now,saying that,I think it does match up very nicely with the Heritage line and if listening to other styles of music besides my hard Rock I think its a fantastic amp,especially for the cost.Also adds that cool retro look to your components. I'd be surprised if the speaker cables or even placement might make a difference as I tried both with the Cornwalls.I personally think its the nature of the beast. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I agree with all the comments here the bass is loose on these amps when playing todays bass heavy music. For the music I listen to 90% of the time the Scotts produce beautiful bass on my Lascalas. No different them a HF-81 Kelly !! Its all in the music you listen too. Most music you and I listen too just don't have the bass some others listen too. I am waiting on a couple Items to show up to see if this bass can be tightened with a EL-84/7189 based amp. I know this loosness is not apparent in the Mark III's that are now complete for Dale Walker and shipping out tomorrow So Kudret hold tight and I may have some Mods for you. Also you shouldn't find it that lacking so some of this could be speaker placement. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 jt1stcav, moving the cornwall INTO the corner does not help "tighten" the bass in my opinion. It will increase the bass and bring the wall into play. But moving nearer the wall will not help "loose" bass which is what he is complaining about. Not sure if he is worried about quantity as much as quality. Still, they do work well the Corners (thankfully). One question, do your Cornwalls have the risers? Risers are a positive thing for Cornwalls. I think the bass on the Cornwall has excellent quality and extension when matched in the right setup. Play with placement, tweaking the Scott, and cable matching if you have the ability. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Here was my "riser" design from a few years ago which is STILL the best tweak I've even done to my Cornwalls. I've shared this before, but here goes again: I built my riser frame from solid walnut (3/4" x 2")and then screwed 1/8" steel sheet metal to one side with silicone caulk as a sealer. I then FILLED the riser with sand and screwed and glued another piece of sheet metal to the other side. I then screwed cones to the botton of the risers and placed them in cups on the floor. Each riser weighs about 60 pounds! The Cornwalls then sit on the risers. This poject costs less than most tweaks and it does more to tighten up Cornwall bass than anything I've tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Allan, Do the risers sit on carpet, or a hard floor surface? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 They sit on a hardwood floor (raised foundation). If they sat on carpeting I would just eliminate the cups. Believe me, this WORKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted January 30, 2003 Author Share Posted January 30, 2003 Thank you all for your excellent suggestions. This forum is really a great forum, with knowledgeable members who are kind enough to help out the others. My other speakers KLH Model 12 which are acoustic suspension are sitting on 8" risers and I am getting very tight bass with both of the 299s. Instruments and vocals are not very well defined on KLH though. I am hoping that Cornwalls will surpass them in all aspects. Actually I am getting a lot of bass from Cornwalls (at times I even think it is too much) but it is not crisp and tight. So I am not interested in quantity but quality. A lot of the music I listen to (Jazz) do not have heavy bass, but once in a while when the bass does not sound as it should, it spoils the whole experience. I will first start with risers and then the speaker wire/placement tweaks. I can experiment with different capacitors in the amps as well but I will leave that for later. I prefer no to replace the crossovers, or modify the speakers in any way. If the Scott+Cornwall combination does to not work out, I would rather find another amp that will have a better synergy with Cornwalls. Thank you all once again for all your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Allen I understand what you are saying. A while back I set my JBL L46 on a paving stone from home depot and then I also set one on top with strips of vinyl matte between to protect the finish. This tightened up the bass and overall made the sound a little better defined. It would seem that this is the result most of the time when you add mass to a speaker cabinet. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 What works best is totally room dependant. We use some general guidelines, but since no two rooms are the same -- you just have to experiment. Also consider that the character of bass can change drastically from one recording to the next. So, perfection is ever allusive. Kelly is right in that typically, moving speakers closer to walls and corners isn't going to tighten up the bass, as a matter of fact -- it sould get worse. Bass, by it's very nature is 'slow'. Of course, we know the speed of sound is a constant, but bass involves long pressure waves, and to the ears -- the more bass, the 'slower' everything sounds. When you move closer to the walls/corners and floors, you 'grow', or increase the output of the bass. In fact, you can get to a point where the bass is discontinuous (discontinuity) from the rest of the sound. Going the other direction will attenuate the output, and though this may seem somewhat 'tighter' or 'faster' -- you may be robbing yourself of some decent output down in the 35HZ area. The key here is balance, I wouldn't get too hung up on 'tightness' and 'loosness' right now, but instead -- try to bring the bass into a proper relationship with what the rest of the speaker is doing. Remember, you want the music to draw you in to the point that you are no longer paying specific attention to the various interplay between the drivers -- what you are after is seamlessness. Once you achieve this, you will find that any feeling of inadequacy you have regarding the bass will diminish. At this point, you can move towards Allan's solution -- which is really the best. I think using risers with the Cornwalls are the best solution towards actually changing the CHARACTER of the bass signature. Here is why: Though I've never owned or heard Cornwalls, I have some strong feelings regarding woofers being coupled, or in close proximity to the floor. Walls, and intersecting walls (corners) are not in the direct line of fire of the woofer's output. Walls are behind, and adjacent to the drivers. The floor however, is between you and the speakers. With floors, I think more is going on than simply coupling. I have extensive experience with the Dahlquist DQ-10, which was originally sold with itty bitty legs, that coupled the woofer to the floor. Raising the DQ's only 4 inches higher had a profound impact on the perceived quickness of the drivers. I found through experimentation -- that moving the speakers up and down -- had far greater impact on the character of the bass sound then when moving them forward and backward. I'm not an expert on theories of wave propagation, so I can't really explain what is going on here -- I just know from what I've experienced first hand. I could increase the perceived output of the bass with the walls and corner, but moving the speaker up and down impacted what I would call 'pace'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 In both a large, Florida style great room and in the open room I have now, my big old Cornwall 1s showed a pronounced 100Hz bump, which made the mid-bass quite present, though more boomy than punchy (like many of todays cone loudspeakers do). Yet this bump also seemed to cry out for more bass and I added first one, than another, subwoofer to extend the bottom end. This helped tremendously with movies and most good jazz recordings. The Khorns reach a little deeper than the Cornwalls (30Hz vs. 40Hz) and the bass at first was kinda lean, but after awhile (and some Xmas listening to live acoustic music) I realized that the bass was actually more realistic. I still use the subs, but they are restrained to a very short leash. My Cornwalls ended up where all loudspeakers should be two to three feet from all walls and pointed directly at my ears or the back of my head some 150% of the space between them (isosceles triangle with the shorter side being the one between the speakers). http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0602/cardas.html Setting Up (Cone) Loudspeakers In (Equatoral Triangle in) A Rectangular Room by George Cardas Cement pavers make good bases for big old horns, My Cornwalls were too high anyway the space between the mid-range horn and the tweeter should be the same height as your ear when you are sitting in the sweet spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 The Cardas Golden Ratio method is cool, but you really need a dedicated room to do it. Really though, one can get 90% there if they just make sure the distance from adjacent walls are of unequal distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 ---------------- On 1/30/2003 1:45:48 PM Colin wrote: ...pointed directly at my ears or the back of my head some 150% of the space between them ... ---------------- Between you ears or your speakers? Sorry, Colin, couldn't resist... fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkbks Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 I listen to jazz 90% of the time on my Cornwalls and have had no problem with the bass. They are in the corners and toed in. Amplification is SS (want to try tubes some day). They are on factory stock risers to which have been screwed small casters (4 on each, not noticeable) and sit on a suspended hardwood floor. I think the risers really help and suspect the casters are acting a bit like spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.