middlecreekguy Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Question. When I listen to my integrated Onkyo amp, should I have the tone and loudness controls at flat? The reason I ask this is because all the pre-amps for tubes that I have seen, don`t have these features. I don`t want to bump up my sound artificially and think my amp sounds better then one that does not have this kind of control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Sounds like you answered your own question. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Answer? Pump up the volume! Hey, if you like those tone controls turned to make the groove jump, then by all means do the clockwise dance! Perception can be related to Experience and is all relative anyway. Bliss can be had at little cost if you dont stray too far. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middlecreekguy Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 You are right. With my controls at flat, and when I think I need a little more bass or treble, by just turning the volume up I get what I need. But who decided that high end equipment should not have these features and "everyday average common man equipment",(that`s EACME from now on), does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 It seems to me there is nothing wrong with having the controls and using them as the situation dictates. For example, I find that some recordings need some adjustments at some or all levels of playback. Also, for listening at low levels, some bass boost via bass control, or loudness, is warranted. I do it to avoid annoying the neighboors or because I have to listen for the phone, etc. Many people have observations on amps and pre-amps having their own unique characteristics. On the other hand, I have not seen people saying that a given defect, real or imagined, subtile or gross, is covered up by use of the tone controls. I don't worry about the arguments of purists. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 no one decided that tone controls were anathema in high-end, I suspect a conspiracy, lol! but seriously, use tone and loudness whenever you feel the need, to help make abad CD sound better, to pump up the bass on a particular tune. there is no right or wrong way to listen to music, leave thenm flat if that floats your boat but never feel bad about making the music sound the way you like it. IMHO of course. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 My amp has no tone controls and I must therefore listen to whatever my amplifier manufacturer has decreed as being "flat" response for devices directly fed to it. I would like to be able to complain but I use a preamp for my tuner and phono stage which has tone controls and for the most part I find the flat position to be the best overall but on rare occasions being able to boost bass or treble has been musically useful . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hofy Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 ---------------- On 1/31/2003 9:58:52 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: I have to listen for the phone, etc. Gil ---------------- Radio Shack part # 43-179 (Mini Fone Flasher) will take care of that. I find it very handy when I have headphones on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 ---------------- On 1/31/2003 9:58:52 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: It seems to me there is nothing wrong with having the controls and using them as the situation dictates. I don't worry about the arguments of purists. Gil -------------- I hear you there Gil! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 31, 2003 Share Posted January 31, 2003 Well, my last answer was a bit cryptic... I will add this, purist or not, everyone has different levels of experience and preference here. The right or wrong of it all is a shifting paradigm, much like thy waistline. Tone controls were done away with because they add more switches and devices for the signal to pass through. With the removal, comes more transparency and potential resolution. The tone brigade can argue all they want as to the importance of it all but no one can escape this simple fact. REmove them, and the sound IS somewhat cleaner and more open, and less congested. Some systems reveal this aspect more than others. I find that those WITH tone controls tend to defend them. Most use them. Personally speaking? My vintage equipment has them and I wish they didnt. I dont like them. I dont use them. All my preamps only have source switching and volume control. That's it. No balance even. I bypassed the balance pot on my tube preamp about 10 years ago. There was an increase in resolution. I ditched the Noble volume pot, and a good pot that is, and opted for a TKD attenuator. AGain, increase in transparency and a lower noise floor. Once your gear does reach a certain level of resolution, the little differences do matter. That being said, you can still enjoy your music with or without, just like you can driving down the backroads with ye olde FM blasting hits, treble up to full to make up for the lousy transparency and interior, bass jacked a few degrees to match the passing center lines. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middlecreekguy Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 I love the open mindedness of everyones answers. Play it the way it sounds the best to you. Coming from a group that is concerned about how many watts is coming out of your outlet and how many pillows are in the room at one time, I am impressed with the EACME tolerance.I guessed that the signal would be cleaner without them,(the controls). But does that mean that the sound is as clean with the controls at flat as it is with a unit that does not have them at all? This is getting at the heart of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
middlecreekguy Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 Well, maybe Mobil does answer my question. Does make sense. Here`s what I think he is saying. The longer the road, the weaker the load. Yes. I understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiohead Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I am really happy to see someone else has been thinking about this and started the post. I was thinking this same thing to myself after demoing the AE-3 DJH and seeing multiple pictures of preamps without the controls. Where are the treble and bass knobs? To me this was one thing I really didn't like about the AE-3 after growing so accustomed to the HF-81. What if you don't want to listen to the music louder to get that punch? I want to feel bass even at levels which allow for conversation in the room. With my Eico the treble and bass both never go above the 3 and the ability to adjust is a clear advantage when working with poor recordings. I just can't understand how there can be one plane on which music sounds "ideal" or the "best." How can someone's ears determine that level for which the preamp will output at? That was particularly the question that came to mind when I was listening to the AE-3/Laurel setup. Sure it sounded excellent, especially in the highs and midrange, but the fuzzy bass I have come to thrive for just wasn't there. To get just a hint of the bass I was looking/expecting to hear I had to crank it to untolerable levels. Granted the preamp did have some crappy Chinese stock 6SN7's in it at the time but could better tubes really provide that much more bass? Oh Lord, please tell me you haven't spoiled me with this darn Eico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Tone controls? Why mess with knobs when it's SO much easier just to change your cables around. Need more bass? Throw them fat Monsters on. Need more treble? Get out the silver cables! It's always about trade offs. If you want the increased transparency and lower noise floor -- you have to ditch the knobs. I like only having two knobs on my preamp -- anything more than that -- and I get all confused and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Indeed. Dean, I have known this about you for a long time. Our $40 telephone conversation confirmed it. You are a loon. heh... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I, for one, find tone controls useful and would actually prefer to have them.Like Radiohead stated at lower volume levels the lows just are not there-not till you reach the mid-volume level which I can't always do with the kids in the house.Now,I'm sure things would be cleaner without them but I would not enjoy the music as much so there's a tradeoff. If every cd I have was recorded in the same matter as my nicely mastered copies I would not have a problem as these sound perfect with the tone controls set flat but that is just not the case. I'm also the type of guy who puts A1 steak sauce on my prime rib so take it from there Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Well, Jeff, you just limited your amp and preamp search to either vintage units are a small minority of units employing tone controls. I personally have forgone tone controls since the early 80s and can tell you that once you are used to this, adding them back is a no go. It's all relative here. I do have them on my vintage pieces but literally almost NEVER use them to boost the signal. I have found little need to attenuate the bass or treble either since getting better gear and more accomplished at system setup. Then again, I dont own A1 steak sauce either.... heh... Great line, by the way! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 If it's 'red' -- it's going to have A1 on it. Didn't I call collect? ...Crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I have tone controls and I don't use them. Also I've gotten to the point when listening to music where >90% of the time I dislike feeling the bass, maybe I should just buy some cans and be done with it. For steak I prefer Heinz 57 over A1. When it comes down to it though I prefer a good steak without any embellishment. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Any vegetarians out there? I like Dijon mustard on my Gardenburgers. I like tone controls too--even though I use them mostly for playing old 78rpm records. Going to the "Howling Monk Cafe" tonight--one of the hippest places to listen to jazz ANYWHERE. I've heard Bennie Maupin and Tootie Heath there in the last couple of months alone. Those of you in L.A. should check it out--it IS in "the hood," but this place has a great vibe. www.howlingmonk.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.