Your preamp...

[Deang]

...or preamp section, is without question going to be the biggest determining factor in determining the tonal quality of your music.

Over the last year (having gone through several pieces of gear on both the amp and preamp side), I've come to believe that the amplifier will primarily dictate drive capability, macro-dynamics, and total balance (which way things tip). However, it will be the preamp that determines the character/tone, 3D imaging ability, as well as the subtle details in the music. Amplifer changes never brought about dramatic differences in the same way a preamp change did. The most dramatic system change I ever encountered was going from the 6922 based Sonic Frontiers Line 1 to the 6SN7 based AE-3 DJH.

It is true that going from something like the AE-25 DJH to the Apollos, or from the Apollos to the Quicksilvers -- brings about significant changes, but more in the areas of weight, substance, and balance.

Having to downsize my system (money wise) gave me the opportunity to try something I had been wanting to try for a long time -- a 12AU7 based preamp. Most of you know by now how Edmond (Jazzman) bailed me out by offering to sell me his Cary SLP-90 Line Stage, accepting payments from me so I would not have to revert to something like a passive preamp.

I've been so involved and stressed just waiting for the new boards in the RF-7's to break in and settle down, I simply have not had it in me to sit down and actually enjoy this fine piece of equipment. Until just very recently, listening to the RF-7 setup long enough to check the treble, and then playing the system to an empty room -- while going downstairs to enjoy the Scott and Cornwalls. It wasn't until last Wednesday that I noticed a marked difference in the treble output, and finally decided to sit in front of the system and put some heat through it. Ethan and myself were working on his Pinewood Derby car, and by nights end we were both enjoying a rocking good time.

Meanwhile, Edmond emails me to say he has mailed me his priceless Telefunkens for me to try out, stating he wanted me to hear the Cary at it's very best. He had made this offer to me previously but I had declined, being content with the Blackplates, and concerned about putting hours on his vintage babies. But Edmond mails them anyway -- so, not only is Edmond a really nice person -- he's apparently stubborn as well.

The Telefunkens show up, and are sitting on the table waiting for me. What to do, what to do? I'm so happy with the system as it stands -- why change anything? Why agonize myself with a possible improvement I cannot afford to implement? I'm tired of the tweaking. Finally just listening to the music again.

I grab the box and head upstairs.

These tubes I'm sure, set Edmond back a little. Original boxes with tubes showing no external wear. The labels are perfect. I'm not one to pay for this level of perfection. I'm happy with white boxes and some smearing of the labels. Since my habit is to wipe my NOS tubes down with ISP before use -- the labels usually end up more than gone anyway. NOS tubes usually show evidence of handling and some accumulation of fine dust, and I'm more concerned with hot spots developing on the tubes, and the resulting subsequent damage to the envelope -- than I am about the condition of the labels for resale purposes. At any rate, I can get pairs of Telefunken 12AU7 smoothplates, matched to 2% transconductance, in white boxes with above average labeling for -- $135. I think Edmond probably paid more for these beautiful tubes.

So, I get out the ISP and wipe the tubes down. Just kidding. Edmond's tubes get the white cotton glove treatment and the finest care while handling. I push them into the sockets, turn everything on, and then go outside to smoke a good clove cigarette and drink a cup of coffee. 20 minutes later I'm back in front of the system.

In the tray is the new Chevelle CD. Tis' my new favorite it is -- rich, dynamic, and very well recorded. I had just listened to it the night before -- and just started it up back up.

Back when I was rolling some tubes through the AE-3, there were moments while listening I thought I could achieve just as much difference with a cable change. Always different, but subtle enough to not warrant much excitement. This 12AU7 rolling experiment was going to give me a new perspective on tube rolling.

Where the RCA Blackplates give a very solid bottom end, the Telefunkens are somewhat soft. I wouldn't characterize them as 'mushy', though this is what comes to mind while listening. I will just stick with soft, as the bass transients just lack the attack of the Blackplates. I also think the Telefunken 12AU7 bass sounds a little wooly, as opposed to the clarity of the Blackplates.

In the upper treble, I find little if any difference at all. Clarity and shimmer seems the same to me. I think there might be a difference in the decay rate of some of the cymbal work, but I won't know for sure until I plug the Blackplates back in. I think maybe the Telefunkens have better decay.

The midrange is where the differences really show up. The Telefunkens are almost milky in comparison to the Blackplates. "Milky" is a step up from "Syrupy". "Syrupy" is thick and slow, and this is not what the Telefunkens sound like. The Telefunkens however, do give up some transparency in order to give out the thicker liquid middle. Things are warm and tight, and the snare drum is pressed back somewhat with the rest of the music. I appreciated the additional warmth and richness. Very nice.

The Blackplates OTOH, are very transparent, and I would agree with Edmond in characterizing them as "neutral". In spite of lacking some of the liquid quality one normally associates with "lush" or "romantic" -- The Blackplates are an excellent sounding tube as well. They sound very open and have excellent transients, and this they do without sounding bright or forward.

I would say that the Telefunkens have more of the classic tube sound, and the Blackplates come closer to solid state in overall slam and transients -- without the grain of course. I really enjoy the Telefunkens, and it's easy to see why they are so favored by those of you who use them with Heritage.

I believe the Cary must be an outstanding unit in order to let the differences in these tubes come through the way they did -- no matter what the tube, the system sounds wonderful -- and I'm sure a great deal of credit has to go to this fantastic unit.

[dubai2000]

Dean

a very interesting read. I have never encountered those RCA Blackplates, but I have some Telefunken. When I tried them with my MC-225 I found their top end nicely extended (in a smooth way). It seemed as though they were adding more of the see through quality to the music. However I also had the feeling that they were taking a bit of instrumental colour out of the music. Having read your post I should give them another go but I admit to being sceptical as I found a similar change when using them with the HF-81.

BTW: If somebody has one spare RCA BLackplate, I'd be very interested in it...

Wolfram

[jazman]

Dean,

Just surfing the Forum today. Glad to hear you finally got around to doing some "listening" instead of building. It's apparent we've got to get you off those RF's and into some "real" horns.(Just yanking your chain.) The Telefunkens are more "lush", no doubt about it. Still, it takes a prolonged period of months, listening to only them, to really get all of what they deliver. I do not disagree with your observations, but I do think the horn loaded bass of my Belles delivers the bass transcients of the Telfunkens very well and wish you could experience that. The RCA's you have are not very sought after, though not easy to find, and they are amazing with the audio characterstics they deliver. As always, system differences are a large part of impressions and preferences.

Glad to hear you're enjoying what that Cary can deliver. That's the bottom line. I guess that after a while longer with the Tele's, I'll just have to loan you the quad of Mullards to perk your ears one step further.

Klipsch out.

[jazman]

Wolfram,

I'm probably the only person in the 2 channel forum holding some of these RCA's, so send me your mailing information and I'll gladly get it out to you.

Klipsch out.

[arfz28]

Hey Deang, We are building our pinewood derby cars too, the big race is sunday. I have 2 boys so we have to build two of them.Got any secrets to make the car really go fast?The best we ever did was get a third place overall, that was really good considering there was about 40 cars there.Mostly the tricks I use are weight totally in the back, file down those bures on the axle ends and polish them up real good.Also I wet sand the tires so they are totaly smooth and round.Good luck on race day.

[NOSValves]

Dean,

Great review and I believe Edmon has a point give them some more time they may grow on you ! But RCA black plates are no slouch !! I think I told you that with your 299B

Craig

[Invidiosulus]

I never can tell from the descriptions which is a black plate and which is a gray plate.

Are the tubes below gray?, black?, I haven't a clue.

Peace, Josh

[Deang]

I forgot something really important:

I wrote out the post while I was at work, and while I was driving home I happened to remember that along with making the change from the Blackplates to the Telefunkens -- I had also changed out the Sylvania EZ-81's for the Mullard EZ-81's that Edmond had sent along with the Telefunkens. I had decided when I got home, I would pull out the Telefunkens, and put the Blackplates back in -- but leaving the Mullard EZ-81's in place.

I thought of Kelly while I was sticking the Blackplates back into the tube sockets. Kelly once emailed me, "Dean, there is a Mullard EZ-81 on ebay right now, BUY IT -- It will make a HUGE difference." Of course, it was gone buy the time I got out there. I would search for one from time to time when I thought of it -- but no real aggressive pursuit. As it turns out -- a mistake.

Kelly's Legacy here will always be getting some tube rectification into the system -- or as I like to call it, tube rectalfication. The Mullard EZ-81 and RCA Blackplates are a marvelous combination. It brought things to that middle ground I'm always looking for, an added some nice warmth to the presentation. The transients of the Blackplates are still in place, but the sound is certainly smoother. I'm estatic at this point, because a $20 RCAs bring me more joy than $100 Telefunkens.

Incidently, Edmond's Blackplates are NOT 12AU7's, but 5963's. The 5963 is a premium industrial version, and does have a slightly lower plate voltage rating than the 12AU7. This is a very nice tube, and though not being sought out presently, will surely be on the hit list as the Telefunkens and RCA Cleartops vanish. People tend to focus on the tubes that are disappearing instead of the tubes that are highly available. This is simply human nature. Both the 5963 and 12AU7 Blackplates are some of best tubes ever made -- and are 1950's vintage, just like the Telefunken smoothplates.

Tonight, I decided that any future disposable income will be put towards snatching up Mullard EZ-81's and 5AR4's.

Kelly of course was right -- Mullard tube rectalfication makes a HUGE difference.

Pinewood Derby

I do NOT mess with the wheels or the axels. The only think I do is apply a dry lubricant and turn the nail so the small ridges are facing down. The wheels don't make contact with them once weight is applied.

I not NOT put weight in the back, or the front. I find the fulcrum, and center load the body as close to perfect as I can get it. Weight is equally distributed across all four wheels.

I stay with body styles that are as areodynamic as I can get them. No sharp corners across the top. The cars are usually shaped like a shallow hill.

We had the fastest time last year until the 2nd heat, when the car hit the foam at the bottom, flipped over and hit the tile, snapping the wood where the driver's sided front axel went in. The car was constistently a car length or more ahead of anything it ran against during trials and general goofing around. I need to find a way to shore up the axels somehow. We race on Saturday.

[Deang]

The 5963 Blackplate.

[Deang]

Another look, with a glorious Mullard EZ-81 in the background -- and dust. Yeesh, I just cleaned this thing.

Ah yes, black is beautiful.

[Randy Bey]

Dean,

have you tried going passive? I have an analog volume control in my CD player that currently goes straight to the amps. The sound is *very* transparent, with no discernable shortcomings.

When I tried the Cary preamp lo these six months ago now I was not overly impressed. The Cary folks said all the tubes were dead in it though and I haven't given it a proper listen since it's still in the shop.

But I do think back on occasion to when Cut-Throat stopped by with his AVA preamp. I think I heard what you described then, the 'quickness' or transients, or contrast, whatevertheheck you can call it. But it may also just have been a touch of brightness or treble to the response. Just an hour of listening (and it was a bit less than that, actually, with all the other puttering about we did) isn't enough for me to form a cement lined opinion.

But I am anxious to hear the SLP90 with the nice 6sn7s, nice Sylvania 6sl7s and some EH 12ax7s in it. Also anxious for Dennis to start/finish working on it. He said he'd get to it THIS WEEK. He said that last week too, but sooner or later....

[RobLikesTubes]

My little Zen's have a gain control and are set up to accept a 2.83mv source direct, with NO preamp. It is so great to have such a direct path. I have used a Anthem Pre-1L and a SF Line 2 with the amps. Pre-amp-less is my fave.

Of course, this will have to change when I put the old Thorens analog set-up back in action.

[Deang]

Randy,

What's the deal with your Cary? The last I heard, Dennis was just going to take it off your hands and give you a heavy discount on something new. I remember you saying there was no way you could do this right now. How did you twist his arm into working on it?

[AndyKubicki]

Dean,

Thanks for the extensive review. I've been bitten by that audio bug too and have purchased a pair of Tele 12AX7s for my Scott to try (seller emailed today that they were just shipped, so hopefully I'll have them for the weekend). I have read a bit about the black plates and have been curious, and if what you say about the 12AU7s is true for its cousin X, then I will have to try that as well.

So many choices! Caps! Resistors! Tubes! Wire! Cables! We're nuts!

[NOSValves]

Deano !!!

I was jamming to Chevelle last night I loved some of it and other songs are just a little to hard hitting for my taste and mood most of the time. But for a group released today that is some of the best I have heard none of the built in digitalized distortion so popular with the hard rockers of today ! Nice album !

Craig

[Randy Bey]

Dean,

I had advice from some folks here to get tough and demand a complementary replacement, but the toughest I could get with him wasn't quite tough enough to sway him. He said that the SLP98 was $3500 and there was no f'ing way he'd "give" it to me, or even sell it for less than many thousands of dollars. Well, I have many thousands of bills, but not the dollar bill variety, so I begged a bit and he said he'd look at it.

So far he hasn't.

I just started a new job and someday I hope to be able to afford this hobby again. I'll bet good money that Dennis is still going to be 'working on it next week' even then, so maybe I can revisit the exchange with him.

Cary has had that preamp for all but one week of the last six months.

[NOSValves]

Randy,

I can't believe they let it out the door and then hesitate to do what ever it takes to make it right. Just seems like a bad business practice to me there must be some way to make it work relatively good. Of coarse your not the original customer so ...

Craig

[audiocrazy1]

my yamaha cdx-1100rs has varible output that i run right into the mitsbushi and it very clear and super clean.

scott

[Randy Bey]

yeah, I gather they are upset that it's out in public but not upset enough to float a new SLP98 my way. Go figure. And I told them I'd write reviews all over the place about it and how wonderful Cary is....

Maybe if someone else calls Dennis (hint hint) he'll understand the gravity of the situation.

[Deang]

Randy, I can see his point -- a new SLP-98 is pretty pricey. Be patient, he'll take care of you.

Craig, some of that too heavy duty for you? You know what they say -- if it's too loud and too heavy, you're too old!

I just ordered some stuff that would raise the hair up on your neck. Hee hee.

Believe it or not -- most of these new bands are 'purists', and what you are hearing is pure tube distortion! Some of what you are hearing is a result of modifications they do to their pickups.