Stylus ?

[AnalOg]

This question is for all the vinyl enthusiasts on the board.

Sonically, how does a stylus sound or not, when it is time to change out due to wear?

I been reading about MM, which I have now, High output MC, low output MC. My options would be MM & High Output MC.

Can I be enlightened on the benefits of each, does one exhibit less surface noise over the other.

Talk to me!

[fini]

Good question. I will be interested in the replies, too. I know when you start seeing little curls of vinyl coming off the stylus it's WAY too late.

fini

[AnalOg]

Fini,

You always have the ability to shed a twisted light on any subject!

Tom

[arfz28]

I guess one would have to look at the stylus under a microscope, but how one would tell one was worn by looking I would like to know myself. I would have to have a brand new stlus of the same type to compare the two. I think a cartridge if mounted properly and was played on clean alblums would have a very very slowly degration of sound quality, which you would have a hard time telling it was going downhill tell you replaced it with a new stylus.I dont play alblums a lot and have a cartride that is 20 years old and still sounds fine to me. I also have bought a used linn k9 cartridge that sounds awsome that I mounted one a AR turntable. I probably got lucky and the cartridge hasnt seen much use.

Does anybody on this board know how to tell if a cartridge is worn. AS of now as long as it sounds good to my ears I am going to keep one using my old and nice sounding cartridges.

[Charles Turner]

I always knew my stylus was worn when the cymbals stopped sounded crisp. As to MC vs MM I recently read what I believed to be a very useful comparison of the two types of cartridges on vinyl asylum.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/224330.html

Apologies if this doesn't post as a direct link

[Malcolm]

One would think a stylus made from a hard material like diamond or sapphire should last a lifetime if not abused. It is so much harder than the vinyl. OTOH I have heard figures of around a 1000 hours as a realistic service life. Supposedly what happens is that as the contact surface wears, the stylus rides lower and lower in the groove. Riding lower in the groove brings them into closer proximity to dirt, etc. in the groove and you get more noise. The profile also changes. You can see obvious problems, like chips with a microscope. Other than that, I would think you would need some precision measuring gear. So, I don't think you have much to go by at home except sound. Probably better to just replace based on time in use.

[Mallette]

I forget the exact numbers, but the contact point between stylus and record generates extraordinary pressures and temperatures. If you hear stylus wear, you've badly damaged your disc.

As to MM vs. MC, my bet is on MM due to cost and user replaceable stylus. I mentioned earlier in a post that I was really amazed at the sound I got from an old Stanton 681EEE, hardly a high priced cartridge. If your a total freak for a few percent, possibly debateable, improvement, then throw all the kilobucks you want at it.

I still say a 25.00 garage turntable with a decent cartridge will run circles around the best CD player you can buy.

Dave

[artto]

On most modern high compliance phono pickups, the grommet suspension usually stiffens up (lowers compliance, lower flexibility of the cantilever suspension) before the diamond stylus tip shows any unusual wear. In some designs like the unique Decca & Norelco pickups, there is no cantilever fulcrum/suspension. Here, the stylus tip wear usually becomes an issue first because the cantilever is mounted, or blocked at one end without a central fulcrum-type suspension.

As far as identifying sound associated with phono pickup wear, usually the grommet suspension stiffening results in mistracking on difficult passages, a loss of detail, especially transient detail. Next stage, maybe lack of dimension. And then increased noise (the too late stage).

As for MM vs MC, I havent found any major benefits of MC, which usually seems to come with higher noise, to offset the extra detail (too much, too close, IMO). And besides. Im a Decca fan. For those of you who have not ever heard one of theseapparently you can buy them again. They will work very well in a SME III with the large damping paddle in place.

I just replace the stylus on my Shure once a year. Its only $20 if you send it in to Shure.

http://www.warrengregoire.com/hifi-stereo-phonocartridges.htm#LONDON%20DECCA

[bkrop]

I didn't notice my stylus was shot untill I switched to a lower powered amp, totally muffeled sound. I don't think the stylus was worn as much as a degradation of other parts of the cartridge.(20 yrs old grado)

[garymd]

I just sent a 30 year old Stanton 681EEE to Boomac which still sounded great to me and I beleive sounds great to him. My brand new shure V15 sounds just a tad better. I probably wouldn't have bought it if I had known how little difference it would make.

[Allan Songer]

The Decca London Gold! I still have a Gold and Maroon sitting around here in perfect condition. The first relly "high-end" record player I had was a SOTA with an SME III and a Decca London Gold. SWEEEEET! Until I stumbled blind into the magic of the SPU I didn't think ANYTHING could compare to the Decca. Finicky? yes Worth the trouble? YES! Every once in a while I pull out the Decca and set it up on my current rig, but the 3012 is too damn heavy and the TD124 is really the wrong table for the Decca, but even so it still sends shivers down my timbers.

[artto]

Allan, you're a Deccaphile too? Cool. There's 3 of us on here then. You, me & John Albright.