Antagon Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I must have solid cement ears, I can't hear the difference between Klipsch's RF 25, 35, or 3II....or even some of the super high end stuff, sound can only be so good to me, I like 1k per pair of speakers as opposed to 20k. Wish I had ears like you guys, so I could know what I was missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 I went listening today, wasn't very impressed with I heard with exception ot the meadowlark audio shearwater's and heron 1's. to me these would be a better choice than the nautilus 802's, and in a similar price range. they have a more full open sound, and image better to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 Antagon. There's nothing wrong with being a "cheap date" or having lead ears. Think of the money that you can save for another bad habbit. I personally have a very rigorous method for evaluating speakers. 1. Do I like the sound? Yes or No check One 2. Can I afford it? 3. Most Importantly...I NEVER listen to anything that I cant afford. Works for me. Oh Yeah, there's that last thing... Don't buy a speaker that appears to have a head, or resembles a guinea hen. Sorry, couldn't find a good head on pic of the hen Drats out of thorazine again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 BBB, Good one,always funny.The POWER OF KRELL will stand the test of time formica, Audio Centre in Montreal had(maybe they still have them in stock,demo)the whole lineup minus the 800's.The 801,802 down to 805's.With the bog 4000 sub in rosewood. Audio Centre,Filtronique Son Or and Codell are THE places for High End in Montreal.A few others have great choice too but these three are the BIG THREE. antagon, I wish I had your cement ears,and looked like clu's avatar.Then no high end store would let me listen to the good stuff. JMON, If you are not the I WALKED IN THE ROOM WAND WAS NOT IMPRESEED TYPE ...Why then are you so irritated?! It does not target you,only those who walked in a room and whined how unimpressive the gear sounded. Dont like my tone,do not worry you are not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Geez this thread got some wind in it's sails. It's the thing I love most about the Klipsch Forum, simply state a speaker type and get endless amount of input / advice / bashing / endorsments. I'm going to title a thread with a speaker brand sometime and no content, bet we can get 500 hits on it. End of story, B&W's are being delivered tomorrow: 802's in front, HTM1 in the center, 804's for the surrounds, and my two RSW-15's to remind them who was in the house first. References commence duty in the family room at the same time. Thanks for all the opinions, keep those cards and letters coming! EAR - a sincere thank you. Your input and counsel has been valuable in this process. More to come as we set em up and break em in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 arthurs, GREAT choice,did anyone walk in the listening room while you were listening and said "Geez Us These Sound Soooo Un Imp Res Ive"? I always have FREE Q-Tip ten packs...all the un impressed discover a new world of finesse when they remove almost a full pound of earwax I know who it might be It must be Mr Cementears ENJOY YOUR GREAT SPEAKERS,I know you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 the nautilus line is far from the best speakers made, especiall from a price standpoint. the meadowlarks woop them upp and then some at half the price. it seems like you rushed into this....I hope you don't end up with buyers remorse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 7, 2003 Share Posted August 7, 2003 ---------------- On 8/7/2003 7:54:55 PM TheEAR wrote: Audio Centre,Filtronique Son Or and Codell are THE places for High End in Montreal. ---------------- I'll have to look more carefully next time I walk through AC , as didn't see the 801 or 802 ... I've never been to Codel... might look them up... but unfortunately I do resemble cluless's avatar Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 sorry to disappoint you prodj, and thanks for your evaluation of my purchase process....I guess another approach would be to recognize that each of us hears and becomes attached to different qualities and sound in speakers, and to just be glad for me that I've found something I'm going to enjoy, whether anyone else ever does or not... I'm guessing the 90 days, no questions asked, full refund guarantee from my dealer should about cover any issues with my satisfaction...a wise buyer always has options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antagon Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Theear, Not irritated at all, just saying I can never hear the difference, then again, my life doesnt revolve around this stuff. That'll be the last time I speak my mind, thats for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 It be cool, Antagon. It be cool. Dont sweat it. I dont speak my mind anymore. I just got sick and tired of trying to get shoes to match all my straight jackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 arthurs, Do not worry Meadowfarts have nothing on B&W 802's. I think someone is trying bad to force you to dislike YOUR choice and force feed you Meadowfarts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 From my previous post: Several things impress me about the B&W loudspeakers. I have listened to the curvaceous B&W 801s dozens of time over the last few years, courtesy of the local Sound Advice/Tweeter boutiques, which kept them in the same room with massive Krell concrete block amplifiers. I have also listened to the 803s several times, courtesy of a local friend, who powers them with the impressive Pass X250 amplifier. I have also seriously auditioned this amplifier in my own home, on my own system, with a dozen loudspeakers and discs, in the last two years. One thing I have not seriously auditioned is the B&Ws in my own home, on my own system. Yet, there are several things I do and do not like about them: 1. At the low end of the scale, in the budget retail audio room, where I can afford to shop, there are not many significant differences between many of the less than $500 price per pair loudspeakers. These small loudspeakers suffer from as many problems as they thrill with low cost musical enjoyment. Expect your ears to wear out long before the loudspeaker does. At this level, few significant differences are found between the Klipsch and the B&Ws. 2. With the internal cross-bracing, that the B&W Matrix 800 series has, they are extremely solid loudspeakers with such smooth curving flanks that they beg to be stroked like some thoroughbred filly. (Yes, you read that right. You can insert any meaning you prefer.) 3. The knuckle-busting quality of their cabinets backs up their stiff yellow Kevlar cones like a fat linebacker helps a tall quarterback. They are a wonderful combination together. The mid-bass performance of the 800 series is amongst the best of the few high-end systems that I have heard. It is taut, without being lean. It is punchy, without being overbearing. It is smooth without rolling off too quickly. 4. The stiff Kevlar and the solid cabinets however, are strong enough to push around most amplifiers. Stereophile magazine wimps out in the face of such a popular brand, saying only that the B&W loudspeakers require an amplifier capable of 4-ohm loads. This is nonsense. The low dips and wild impedance swings require amplifiers that can dominate the loudspeakers like a drill sergeant at boot camp. Or any other dominatrix you care to imagine. Such power, whether it is green-clad or dressed in black leather, comes at a cost. 5. And cost is never far from the tweaking audiophiles mind. No matter how wonderful something sounds, it is always evaluated against the pocketbook. They may be astounding Nearfield Pipedreams or amazing Martin-Logan Statement towers, but when the pocketbook enters the picture, their value instantly changes. Suddenly mere $25,000 loudspeakers, which sound as good or even better for a quarter of the price, are the bargain of the day. The point of this rambling conjecture, and there is one, is that there a difference between B&Ws, with their enviable features, and modest Klipsch speakers, even if it is only a slight one and not very sonic one at that. The difference is the power requirement. Loudspeakers manufacturers have to provide their frequency response. Yet, every loudspeaker manufacturer should also have to provide impedance curves for their loudspeakers. The impedance chart paints the other side of the story. It shows the load that the loudspeakers present to the amplifier. This is particularly critical when the speakers are driven by tube amplifiers, or when the impedance curve is wild and low, as in the case with the B&W Matrix 800 series. Can the expensive, mighty Pass X250 amplifier drive ultra-efficient big old horns like the Khorns? Why certainly. Even with very loud passages in The X-men movie and without moving into Class AB either (75 watts)! Nothing we threw at the Pass X250 required more than a sip of FPLs electric grid. But, can my diminutive, low cost, delicate detailed, flea-powered Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour tube monoblocks drive a curvaceous B&W 800 series? Not hardly. You drop huge Vette engines into small VW Beetles for the sheer fun of it not the other way round. To power the top of the line B&Ws requires copious horsepower. Hence, my local Sound Advice couples them to powerful Krell beasts. The top of the line Klipsch big old horns however, require a far more modest push. Yet, properly configured and a subwoofer to two may be required for most music and movie reproduction systems tube powered big old horns can display most of the most engaging features of the very best sound systems I have heard: complete for the cost of just one Pass amplifier or a pair of B&W 800 series loudspeakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Ah Accuton drivers, some of the best speakers I have listened in my life sports their speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Colin, As you could experience first had B&W's top O the crop lack colorations even most Klipsch have(and Klipsch speakers are quite uncolored for the so so cabinet construction). The cabinet sourrounding the bass driver is as rigid as its practical to make,no boxy boom or box vibrations to be heard,the midrange is housed in a super strong non resonating chamber and its cone material does not enhance any audible colorations.The tweeter is again housed in a tube like chamber,solid and non resonating. This is the main attraction of the 800 series B&W's,lack of audible colorations.Those who hear colorations hear the room induced colorations. As for driving the B&W's,a not a problem for me.I have at least five power amps capable of driving the most power hungry speakers to insane levels before ANY clipping takes over.Or better even before any amp stress can be heard. I always but powerful solid state,even for Klipsch.This way the amp lets the speakers know who is boss.Whimpy low power may sound more musical but these euphonic,rounded amps do NOT reproduce the original input as well as well designed large solid state.I do not care how nice and vibrant tube amps are(I heard a good few at home too,from BAT VK60 to Audio Research passing by Jolida).Sure tube amps make the sound so easy to listen to its almost like a dream,to soft sometimes.Makes CD sound almost analog.For acoustic instruments and vocals its a dream come true. My next amp purchase will be the Bryston 14ST,a great Made In Canada power amp capable of driving the most power hungry speakers to almost Krell FPB like levels.Long live ATI,Bryston,Krell and SimAudio.After I may get the three channel Earthquake(a larger more powerful ATI). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Installed them tonight...say what you want, I love these speakers right out of the box, and know they'll only get better. I can drive them pretty well with my B&K, but can already see the next investment I'll be making.... I'll get to some pics soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 If I had pockets as deep as yours it would be hard telling what I would be listening too. I would most certainly have two systems -- with different signatures. I still enjoy the sound of planars -- so maybe some big a$$ Maggies sucking up the floor space. I heard some top of the line B&Ws back in the 80's. They sounded really good in many ways, but I can honestly say that if cost were no object -- they wouldn't have made my short list. Just too polite for my tastes -- even the big planars had more bite than those B&Ws. Then again, they didn't have the B&Ws on a Krell. You like them and that is all that matters. They are well regarded, and many love them -- so you are not alone here. I don't know what money looks like for you down the road, but you need an amplifier that can almost run into a dead short. There are only a handful that can do this, and probably the most reasonably priced option is the Aragon 8008ST. 2 ohms rather comfortably, and bipolar transistors which I think would be sonically better suited to the 802's then the MOSFETS the B&Ks use. If your preamp has preamp outs -- this would be a very good solution for you. Hey Ears -- check out my "wimpy" tube amp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Dean, Nice little tube mini,like I said I prefer amps capable of doubling as arc welders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 10, 2003 Share Posted August 10, 2003 Yeah, but my "mini" weighs 70lbs, and does a nice job of warming up a room on a cold winter night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I too recently heard the B&W 802s, paired with Brighton amps. I have to say it sounded awesome, I had that sinking feeling in my stomach and my mind was saying "Sigh, this sounds worlds better than my Reference setup". I listened to Tocatta and Fugue (pipe organ Bach) and watched some scenes from Episode II. Wow! However, I was then able to drive straight home, put the same music and DVDs in my system and be satified that I had sound that was almost in the same league for what is truly a tiny fraction of the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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