jstanton Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Something occurred to me the other day and I thought I'd run it by you all anf hopefully get a satisfactory explanation. If it's such a good idea to have your speakers set to small, then could someone please explain to me why Dolby 5.1 and DTS channels are FULL RANGE all the way around? Doesn't this seem a bit incongruous to anyone but me? Why bother to have 5 full range channels for movies if everyone is NOT going to use them? I'm starting to suspect that this "small" speaker setting which everyone swears by is just a way to accomodate less than optimal speaker selections... I've already got a KSW-15 serving center channel duty and have ALL speakers set to LARGE. I'm also going to look into getting 2 extra subwoofers to help my KLF-30 surrounds handle all that bass when set to LARGE. It seems to me that if speakers are to be set to SMALL for optimal sound reproduction then there would be no reason to have them be full-range channels in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amonteiro Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 this is an interesting read on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I have my front 3 and 2 rears set to large while my 4 surrounds are set to small... Tried to set the surrounds to large and it didn't sound as clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 dont do the read, i have and it just contradicts what my ears hear, i have done and redone, tried and retried, and my ears tell me just what you said, the small settings are set for small speakers, not full range speakers, there are big differences in soundstage when listening in the 2 settings, small takes away from the experience of being there, if a person listens quickly, the small setting is pretty cool because of the pronounced mids, but once you get into some really good ht..lotr, starwars episode 1&2 than you see all that you miss in soundstagethere is alot of bass coming at you from the rear, bass that is missed when set top small Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand11 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 The best article I read on the subject I acutally got from here. It actually explains why even full range speakers should be set to small (allows flat exention until the subwoofer takes over and removes any audiable roll off when compared to "large settings") So here it is again, just download the attachment. Brian Florian Bass Management2.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Peel Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I got everything but the RC-7 set to large, RF-7's up front LARGE, RF-5's in the back LARGE, with the setting on the HK to LFE + L/R, and the SVS helps out with the low end stuff. Can't be happier with this setup, amazing sound, better than the theater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Everybodys speakers and setups are going to sound different and we each need to find the best setting for our own systems. In my case, Everything is Large, Khorns and Heresys. I get a much fuller sound that is very noticable during concert and music films. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I have all my speakers set to large! Why? because they are all LARGE! Even my little KG-1's can handle an 80hz and below signal. I am running all outboard amplification so it in no way taxes the receiver's power supply. The amps can easily handle the demands that the additional bass response requires of them. If people choose to set their full range speakers to small let them. I want to hear all the bandwidth that is present thank you very much without the receiver restricting their response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 since you have a yamaha receiver, you need to see HOW LOW A FREQUENCY you can send to your speakers vs. sub. in the case of MY 777ES, i can set the roll-off-to-sub as low as 40Hz, sending 40Hz and up to my klf-30's, and the center and surrounds are idependently adjustable too! (set at 60-70Hz) the sub gets the rest. BECAUSE of this flexability, in THIS case,i am getting the best performance from ALL components, as i am not 'short-changing' my mains,center, or surrounds' bass-making capability, and the sub isn't having to play above 70Hz, or above 40Hz from the l,r front signal. avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Yes and no and whenall said and done it is what ever sounds best to you for that particular movie or song. I change according to my mood and what I am listening to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtlively Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 as usual i agree with marksdad. of all the respondents, i would benefit (alledgedly) from "smal" speaker settings at least on my mains and center, however, they can handle all you got! my ears bleed before my speakers distort. i cannot imagine setting my speakers to small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Since we are basing this on preferences and our ears - I vote for small with good sub and more refined settings. I have done all sorts of ways and prior to two significant changes (my homemade center and the SVS 20-39) I was best served by large all around. I swore by it and I am sure to this day it was best for what I had. Now I have a much better sound for me with small all around and sending stuff to the sub at 80hz (remember this is Heresy all around). I think if you take a look at the edges of this bass management you'll see down to 50hz on the speakers, about right for the heresy - and all smooths toward the sub. I also find the sub particularly nice for music as well. If I had the Khorns (or better low freq producers) I would be sure my bass management allowed a lower freq to match their peak performance. 2 cents worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand11 Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 It's interesting to see the debate. To my ears it was no contest: setting all speakers to small gave me by far the best response and sound. The reason to me was simple: Because my config hace a couple of RS-35s and and RC-35 in the mix, large created a problem: The quality of the bass would change depending on if the "large" speakers handled the bass or if my SVS did. Turning on "LFE+Main" just meant the db level would change randomly. It might be different for me if I had towers all the way around, but even then I thought I measured roll off happening as high as 50hz ... I'd probably leave them set to small just so my flat repsonse would extend alot lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 sure grand, most of your speaks ARE small it does make sense in your case, but not when you have large speaks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers1517 Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I have 2 khorns and 3 lascalas. My reciever is a Harmon Kardon 7200. I have all 5 speakers crossed over at 60hz. I have 2 ksw 15's that I hope to upgrade soon. When I set everything to large, only the lfe goes to the subs. When I set to small at 60hz everything below 60 goes to the sub. I know these subs are not a match for the khorns but I am really surprised how much more bass I have this way. I have a s&v tune up disc. Using a sp meter and the low frequency sweep it is also much smoother this way. If I set the crossover lower than this I get a hole even with the khorns. I thought the khorns were good for 35hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 I too cross the speakers over at 100hz and let the SVS PB2+ handle it from there. I've tried setting my RF-7's to Large and it sounds pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hello chambers- What may be happening at your ear is the rolloff of db that starts around 50 - 60 hz (anyone with real knowledge correct me here) on the Khorns. With out a sub, your ear can grow to appreciate the debth of the LF regardless of the rolloff. With the sub your ear may think things are tighter because the rolloff (again not knowing the sub specs) happens at a lower freq. This bass management thingy is (eventually) an analog activity and it is unreasonable to expect an exact cut off on a freq - therefore you can expect variances on both high and low pass (depending on which speaker we are talking about) in the 20-30hz range on various portions of a recording. That is where the ear tells us the smoothest transition for management of the LFs. Seems like in your set up the 60hz setting allows the Khorns to use their lower extension to comfortably transition to the sub creating new energy insteaad of conflict. It is a great example of there not being just one right way to do something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absolutofft Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I tried running small, but the 80hz crossover on the denon 3801 wasn't nice AT ALL. It was very abrupt and unpleasant. Therefore I have my front speakers set to large and my sub crossed over at about 50hz. The front speakers are still producing the LFE (RF3's) and the paradigm servo 15 is providing backup from 50hz and below. When I run a frequency sweep the crossover is smoooooooooooooooooooooooooth. I just couldn't get any sort of blending worth talking about when using the small setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 ---------------- On 10/15/2003 6:29:12 PM absolutofft wrote: I tried running small, but the 80hz crossover on the denon 3801 wasn't nice AT ALL. It was very abrupt and unpleasant. Therefore I have my front speakers set to large and my sub crossed over at about 50hz. The front speakers are still producing the LFE (RF3's) and the paradigm servo 15 is providing backup from 50hz and below. When I run a frequency sweep the crossover is smoooooooooooooooooooooooooth. I just couldn't get any sort of blending worth talking about when using the small setting. ---------------- FINALLY I found somebody who's running a system like I'm thinking of running mine. MAINS set to LARGE, WITH LFE. Sub for 50 Hz and below. I'm going to try it like that anyway. It makes sense to me. It'll be a cold day in hell before I set K-horns or even KLF-30s to SMALL... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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