burn in time for rf-7's

[ncsubum]

I have owned a pair of rf-5's for several months and love them, they are very full and even sounding and in my small bedroom 12x15 (pretty big for a college bedroom though) have plenty of low end fill to eliminate my need for a sub.

So, thinking that my 5's sound so good, the 7's would sound better right?

My local dealer had a big "private sale" yesterday and had the 7's reduced big time.

Now a pair is sitting in my bedroom beside my 5's (actually in the same spot my 5's were in, w/the 5's moved aside.)

Now to the point...they sound good, but not great. They get louder, which isn't that big a deal to me cause I rarely listen to music very loud, and they play lower, which is nice, they have a big pressence (i'm thinking b/c of the higher efficiency) but they just aren't as even sounding.

I expected Klipsch in all their engineering genious to have matched the 1.75" tweet to the 10's perfectly. But they don't sound as good as my 5's. When I got my 5's they were a floor model that had been out for less than a week...

Anyway, through all my bable, my question is this...will the 7's break in any? I've never understood how speakers actually change during a so called break in or burn in or whatever happens.

I have one week to return them if I'm not pleased, and am planning on taking full advantage of that time to play w/them. I just wanted to ask what I should look foward to. Will they start to sound better or not?

Thanks

[TBrennan]

No, they won't sound better. But sometimes people delude themselves into thinking speakers improve, "break-in" so to speak. But it's not so, the changes that actually happen are minor and happen very early in the speaker's use.

Personally I've never heard bad speakers get good. They've always stayed bad.

[ncsubum]

Thats what I thought, I've never noticed a speaker change at all before...besides room position of course. I'm going to play w/position tomm. and see if it helps any, I picked them up inbetween classes today and just put them right where my 5's were and started listening to them.

My 5's were so perfectly centered up and positioned that on certain panning tracks, friends thought I had surround speakers.

It will just be a matter of time before I find a spot where I think they sound the best but any suggestions for placement would be appreciated. Closer/farther from walls, toe-in angle, etc

[Soundthought]

Hello,

No comment on break in.

The RF7s, like many of their brethren, are heavily reliant on placement and amp selection.

If your happy with your Yammy, then I suggest several rounds of experimentation in placement.

Try this;

Place them about 1 1/2ft from the side walls and 2ft from the back wall.

Toe them in so they point towards a spot approx. 2ft behind your head at your listening position.

I've found that to be the best placement in my 12x15 room.

Also, try running them both bi-wired and single wired.

Results may vary.

Regards,

John

[burtlively]

this is sure to create lively discussion, but i believe "burn-in" to be way overrated. that is not to say that some, but not all pieces of equipment truly have a "burn-in" period before you experience remarkable sound. just keep in mind that many pieces of equipment should sound extraordinary right out of the box!

[dkp]

I am in the same boat here. My RF-7's arrived yesterday and so I pulled them out of the box and just hooked them up right there. I was a bit dissappointed in the sound quality of the speakers when compared to the same RF-7's in the local dealer's store. However, I did notice that the placement of the speakers had a large impact on the overall sound quality. Try moving them around a bit, and see if that helps.

[dougdrake]

In fairness to the RF-7s (well, their engineers, actually), I think it would be expected that speakers are going to sound different in your home than they will at the dealer - incredibly different room acoustics, probably differences in electronics - amplification power/quality, source component, etc... A bad speaker will always sound bad, no matter where it is or what is driving it. A good speaker may sound good one place and bad another, but probably not because of the quality of the speaker

DD

[mark1101]

I don't have any experience with the RF-7s. All I ever owned was Heritage series. I think you are on to the issue which is placement, but I'll add this.

Since you put them right where the old ones were and they didn't sound as good, I figured it was placement right away. Because I am assuming your complaint about not being as "even" referred to imaging. You will definitely have to find the right spot for them which is not very hard to do.

I constantly moved my corns from different rooms and homes over the years. Some rooms frustrated me more than others, but I learned how to get them to image almost anywhere. The key could be as little as a foot of movement in either direction (separation between speakers) to get the optimal "even" sound. I am guessing you need to separate those more than the 5s. I am guessing. BUt play with separation first until vocals center and speakers "disappear". Then play with distance from wall for bass / mid balance. Corner placement increases bass, reduces imaging ability. Long wall placement (recommended) improves imaging alot, reduces bass. In a small room theose 7s probably have plenty of bass. I would go for the long wall and stay out of the corners.

But it sounds like you already were on tot his. Just trying to help. I hope you get it right, hate to see you return them if you were happy with the price. Bigger should be better. It is with the Heritage series.

[itsmyforte]

those 7's will require more seperation between them than the 5's. i think your problem is definitely placement. the 7's are better in every way than the 5's. not to put down the 5's they are great but the 7's are better. plus realize you've got these massive speakers in a small room, there is going to be a ton of reflections. if you got a really good deal i would hang on to them, you'll appreciate their sound when you move to a bigger place.

[ncsubum]

By "un-even" I was actually meaning not as full on vocals, like a black hole right at the xover point.

At the retail store they had a Yamaha RX-Z1 powering the 7's and they sounded really good, but the room is MUCH larger, probably twice as large, and they have all sorts of wall hangings and "acoustic absorbers". Where as my room now sounds bright, not shrill or harsh at all, but bright.

It may be the reciever, but I have had many Yamaha amps come through here and play my 5's on them, and they all sounded exactly the same at reasonable levels. Even with those experiences I may be wrong in assuming the Z1 would also sound the same. I know that yamaha has the tendency to scream at you at higher levels, and I've come to accept that (sigh) for now.

Could it be the 7's are just making that worse?

More on position: I have them on the short wall, about 7 feet apart aiming right at my head. I sit right in the center of the opposite wall, all the way up against the wall. Imaging is great, centered up perfectly. I'm going to try to move them to the spot John mentioned, and if that doesn't work I'll keep playing.

Thanks for the replys.

[LarryC]

Look at the thread, "Will my speakers get better with more use?" It's found on page 3 of the 2-Channel forum thread listings.

Several on that thread said there is break-in; hurdy_gurdyman posted an interesting direct comparison between broken-in and the same model of un-broken-in speakers. FWIW, my opinion only, I think break-in is real, probably within 40-50 hours of use.

[mark1101]

The Long wall my friend. The long wall. Don't trust me, read about it. Go to wilsonaudio.com and click tech notes and then room acoustics. You are describing one of the classic problems he discusses.

It may be a pain to rearrange the room, but those beasts are in a small area and it sounds like you need to separate them and shorten the room.

You could definitely improve your amp too. I'm not going to bash Yamaha, but there's much better. I'm sure you know.

You should still be able to achieve much better sound than with those 5s with exactly the same amp. If you don't go to the long wall in that small room, you might not ever be able to really let it crank without the harshness.

Let us know what you do and how it works.

[ncsubum]

The long wall isn't an option, b/c its my bedroom, on the long wall there is a window on one side, and two doors (closet, and bathroom) on the other. So in my bedroom I have a bed, and a desk. Over the window I have full length drapes. I actually measured my room instead of going by the measurements previously given to me, and it is 10.5 wide x 12.5 long, so there isn't much difference between the short and long wall.

LF DESK RF

========================= How do you like that for an artists rendition? so what if i'm bored.

** ---------- ** //

// ** ---------- ** // This is my wonderful room, with *'s being rf-7's.

// //

door // //

// /----------/ //(window)

// / / //

// / / // It appears that in my even smaller room than I thought before,

door // / / // my only option is diffusers or some other similar "slap echo"

// /~~~~~~~~~~/ // eliminating device.

// // // // //

=========================

BED

Any ideas on how I could go about building one or more of them, and where I should place them on the walls?

Also, what kind of reciever should I be on the lookout for to replace my Yamahas with?

It has to be 5 or more channel for multi-use, must have some sort of 5 channel stereo DSP for parties and such, must have an ample ammounts of power (120+) and can't be crazy expensive (less than $1,500) because I don't want to have to kill a family member and claim life insurance in order to buy it (well, maybe getting rid of my little brother wouldn't be so bad.)

Thanks again.

[ncsubum]

dangit, my picture got screwed up.

oh well. it WAS pretty.

[mark1101]

At this point I feel for ya. Sounds like not much you can do in that room. I'm convinced it is the room. I'd look for a new room! I wouldn't build any diffusers. Instead I'd find a way to hang more stuff like drapes, and add blankets, bedspreads, carpets, hang stuff from ceiling, etc. Then, just ride it out until you finally move!

Life is long, and Klipsch last for life. So, eventually you'll get them to where they need to be.

[ncsubum]

Right now the 7's are sitting right on the carpet w/out spikes b/c the spikes they gave me were rusty, i don't want to get rust on my carpet.

i don't know how the spikes got rusty, but it doesn't supprise me. when i pulled this pair of 7's out of the box, one of them was really banged up. I talked to the dealer, and my new pair is going to be here on monday (best reason for buying from a retail store, if anything happens its taken care of for me).

just wanted to see if having the spikes on would help the mid-range any, and if so, will it be a drastic improvement...it seems that the weight of them should keep them from moving too much from cone movement but i really have no idea.

thanks

[Ray Garrison]

One of then was real banged up?

You might have a defective speaker. Crossover could have component(s) that got knocked loose, drivers might not be tightly coupled to enclosure, yada yada yada. Fact that dealer is already getting replacements will quickly answer that question.

Placement is a very big issue. Distance from bass drivers and tweeters to floor is different with these speakers - might necessitate different distances from wall to even response out. Dispertion characteristics might be slightly different - relationship to wall will change.

[Audio Flynn]

Another brainstorm idea...

RF-7 has a different tweeter that may be more revealing of your SS amps limitations.

My RB-5s needed about 100 hours to smooth out.

FM radio all night for a while may help. Fractions of a watt is fine.

Reference 2.5 feet from a rear wall is a good starting point. I only toe in 5-10 degrees max.

[ncsubum]

the one isn't mauled or anything, there are 2 places where it looks like something hit it, and the veneer is comming off near the foot from where the foot probably wiggled around while it was being shipped.

also, the veneer on the top has several splits in it which came from the factory, b/c the stain turned the splits dark.

some people may be satisfied, but when a fairly poor college student like me buys a $2,200 pair of speakers i def. want them to be as close to perfect as possible.

also, can somebody make some suggestions about what recievers i should be looking for w/the qualifications i mentioned earlier? that would be great.

Chris

[Fish]

I just returned a Yamaha that I bought at Ovation's private sale for my bdrm,man that thing had screamin' high's,ouch.The 7's will reproduce what comes in very well,every avr/preamp I've tried sounded totally different.It sounds like you have several issues that together are causing the problem.Placement and pre/amp are first on the list,imho.