kiddo Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 My 5.1 system just plain lacks impact. I want more intense power and bone ripping sound waves to knock me over and into my couch! I am not looking to increase sound levels, but the physical impact of the listening experience--does that make sense? My <$1000 car audio setup rattles my bones and makes my mirrors unusable. I am assuming this is due to small space within my F250 SuperDuty compared to my amphatheater-like living room (22 x25'). Increasing the volume does make it louder, but it lacks the intense punch/power that my car-audio system delivers. Am I wishing for too much? I have seen recommendations on pre-amps etc but most are way over my head. I think I need the basics. Do I need to up the current to my speakers? Cannot increase the size of the speakers due to low WAF--can I improve the impact with more power??? My new system: Denon AVR 1804 (90w x 6) Front: RB35s Rear: RCR-5s Center: RC-35 Sub: RW12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMays Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The Denon 1804 is not really giving you 90 watts per channel. Perhaps you can find a cheap amp and use the 1804 as a pre/pro. I think you will see your system really "pick-up" Go to ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancestorm Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 The first thing I thought of was your front line up using the RB35's, but then saw the low WAF comment. Personally I think it is the fact that you might have become accustomed to way over-exaggerating the bass in the car. This is the first problem I had when moving on to home theater. I wasn't getting pounded left and right in the back of my seat. But now that I have given up on car audio (selling it all), I have really started to like the sound of my home theater system and think it generates a more accurate representation of bass. Anyways, that's just MHO. Let's see what other members might suggest. I have a feeling Ears will be in here to talk about an army of subsonic power of some sort . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 You need a much better sub. You will never get what you are looking for with the speakers. Bookselfs just can't give that to you. Check out svsubwoofers.com. Look at the ultra's and or the ultra box sub. These will give you what you are looking for. Becarful though they can make drywall crack and fall from the ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 ---------------- On 1/7/2004 12:34:03 AM kiddo wrote: I want more intense power and bone ripping sound waves to knock me over and into my couch! I am not looking to increase sound levels, but the physical impact of the listening experience--does that make sense? . . . Cannot increase the size of the speakers due to low WAF--can I improve the impact with more power??? ---------------- I totally agree with Easylistener on this one. Even though it is conservatively-rated, my Harmon Kardon receiver probably puts out less power than your Denon. "Punch" or "impact" was lacking with my Klipsch system until I became real serious about the bass situation. Now, two SVS later, my system's impact is almost "bone ripping." Many would suggest SVS or Klipsch RSW options as a place to start before additional power since you have speaker size limitations. TheEAR may also have some good Velodyne options, etc. What budget are you talking about? ------------------- Downstairs Harmon Kardon AVR 525 Mains: Klipsch RF3II Center: Klipsch RF3II Surrounds: Klipsch RS35 Left Rear: Klipsch RC35 Right Rear: Klipsch KLF-C7 SVS 20-39PCi SVS PB2-ISD (incredible!) Upstairs Yamaha RX-V1300 Mains, Center: Onkyo SKS-HT500 Surrounds: Axiom QS-8 HSU VTF-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 count me in the "consider your subs" category as well...unless you can overcome WAF on upgrading the mains, that would also help you get where you want to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I agree, also, on the subwoofer theory. Also, you may consider adding "bass shakers" to your key seating positions. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Have you considered a coffee table subwoofer? Do a google search. They exist. Secondly, are your rears on the rear wall or on the sides? The sides work better for surround. Lastly, I agree with others that your fronts and your receiver may not fit your need for thwack (thud!, whack!). Also check around the forums for demo tracks to test your system's effectiveness. Thirdly, your sub setting/placement may be interfering with your main's sound waves. (http://www.sonicdesign.se/subplace.html) That is my $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Without a doubt the weak link in your system is the Front Mains (RB-35) and the subwoofer (RW-12). Upgrade the Front Mains to floorstanding models and up your subwoofer to RSW if you want to stay in the Klipsch family or other subs. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syclone385 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yeah, room size is an issue. My room is 21x28 so I feel your pain. It took 2 RF7's RC7, RSW 15 and my Heresy's pulling duty as L/R surrounds to even get close to what I expected. I am currently thinking about adding another RSW15 to see if I can get where I want to be. Everything is currently driven with vsx36 elite receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Well Kiddo, in a room 22 x25' you need 2 Klipschorn fronts, and 3 Lascallas for centers and rears. Add a few nice amps and several SVS subs and you are all set! Now that was easy wasn't it. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Scratch Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 You probably do need to make some equipment changes, but, if you haven't already, try some different settings (crossover, delay, level, phase on the sub, etc.). You'd be surprised how much of a difference that can make. RW12 sub? Hmmm, maybe not a building-shaker, but not a Michael Jackson wimp sub either. IMO those are very good subs, but if you want maybe audition an SVS or Velodyne or Paradigm Servo 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caz1604 Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 I personally just made the jump from car audio to HT. I have 3 JL Audio W6 10's in my civic, so with the space it rocks my adams apple and gives me a full body massage. I was not expecting my RSW-10 to blow me out of my seat (don't really want my bass to over power the movie anyway), but I definitely feel the explosions and car engines (Gone in 60 Seconds "Eleanor Scene") and everything else. However my room is not your size so try the RSW-15, or maybe like the other poster said and put in two RSW-15's!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 Run a separate amp pushing one or two of these bass horns - trust me on this one, you will have to turn the bass down. They measure 4'x4'x22" and hold a single 18 driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 If you want slam and WAF, change the RW-for the RSW-12 and the RB-35s for RB-75s. The form factor etc will change the least and there will be a major improvement in sound. A high current amp is also an important addition. The Pioneer Elites, NAD, H/K and B&K all produce better slam than an 1804. Bang for the buck, the H/Ks are the best bet. The bottom line is that you need to work out a budget, priorities and a strategy that has WAF. The SVS tube subs are likely to have low WAF, so be careful. The SVS box subs are a different matter. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddo Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks for all the comments. Agree the floor standing would be much better, just picked up the RB35s 2 weeks ago...wonder if my local guy might consider a change up to floors. May have to forget the WAF and get the big ones. I have not compared the floorstanding units lately hmmm. One problem with the initial placement is that I tossed the RBs in some upper niches 7 1/2' high--I am assuming this is robbing a bit of the impact from these speakers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thr RB-35s should have the tweeters at ear level or at least aimed at ear level. This alone will improve the sound a bit. The RB-75s have the same tweeter as the RF-7s with an 8 inch woofer. When used with a good sub, there should be good slam. The RF-7s would be a major improvement over bookshelf speakers. The RF-7s require good amplification to sound their best. The impedance curve goes down to about three ohms at 76 Hz. This requires serious power from a receiver to sound good. With a 200 watt separate amp like the B&K 200.5, no subwoofer is required for music. (Subs are highly recommended for action movies.) The RF-7s require the RC-7 center speaker that weighs 42 pounds. The center channel gets as much as 75% of the program material in multi-channel modes like DD 5.1 and PL II. The center is by far the most important speaker in multi-channel setups. If you go with the RF-7s, budget something nice for the wife. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 If you just bought the RB's a couple of weeks ago they will take them back. Most Audio stores will take them back even after 30 days if you are upgrading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-man1 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 good opinions in the thread. i would go with upgrading to higher level bookshelf speakers (RB5/7's) to keep the WAF in the green, but then try to sneak in a higher-end sub (that will definitely degrade your WAF). i think the sub will make the biggest difference for you overall, once you open up those 20-35Hz levels in that big room...you'll be very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Your room is huge and your sub is just to puny for that BIG room to fill.For a room like yours I would use at LEAST two RSW15 subs in one corner or better yet buy a single SVS B4-Plus and power it with a Crown K2 power amp.This way you will gain major slam.Slam and punch you never felft before. For sheer punch and slam two RSW15's will make it.For very deep shake and bake the single B4-Plus/Crown K2 is the choice. If you do not mind an industrial bass bin you can always get a horn loaded 18" monster,with this design you get HUGE slam but not much in the way of very deep bass(unless heavy EQ use). Plus in my view the best option is two RF7's with a SVS B4-PLUS/K2,this way you have both HUGE SLAM and INCREDIBLE DEPTH and power.In other words you have it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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