Klipsch VS SVS my wish... in 2004.

[IndyKlipschFan]

OK, I admit it, I love my Klipsch RSW 15" sub. Each week we get "cool newbies" on the board praising SVS this and that blah, blah, blah, is better in this situation at this cost basis. I get so sick of the BB thinking that Klipsch makes such a great full range speaker...(insert the word "but" here, as most sales people or people on the board do,) but can't make a great sub? BullSh*t.

I would love to see a real challenge, perhaps let Klipsch test in the same way it also tests their subs, so we have the truth in data from each sub speaker.

Is there anyone who lives near Indianapolis, Indiana willing to allow their sub to be tested..(would be cool just to see what the data really is anyhow.) (Klipsch, I am sure, might come up with a nice grab bag of goodies...T shirt or something I am sure for your time!) Maybe even Klipsch could buy a SVS sub and see and test it too?

All I can say is I have rock solid clean lows from my own experience. Everyone who hears a movie just drops their jaw in awe so far. I have not heard the SVS, never seen it in a stereo store or even used...(I know it is mail / internet computer order only) but I get tired of hearing about it all the time on the Klipsch BB. I have not checked, but does SVS have a BB that sais Klipsch makes the best speakers and Klipsch subs are better than SVS.. I wonder? This free advertising of SVS gets old to those of us happy with our Subs and my wish is that Klipsch needs to prove it has an equal or better product up for the challenege. I have a feeling Klipsch is up for the challenge!

[TheEAR]

Agree

However I own all three Klipsch RSW subs,and a load of R series speakers.Plus...ah many other subs/gear,so I will continue saying...Get a Revel B15 dude

[fabulousfrankie]

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On 2/1/2004 12:26:51 AM IndyKlipschFan wrote:

OK, I admit it, I love my Klipsch RSW 15" sub. Each week we get "cool newbies" on the board praising SVS this and that blah, blah, blah, is better in this situation at this cost basis. I get so sick of the BB thinking that Klipsch makes such a great full range speaker...(insert the word "but" here, as most sales people or people on the board do,) but can't make a great sub? BullSh*t.

I would love to see a real challenge, perhaps let Klipsch test in the same way it also tests their subs, so we have the truth in data from each sub speaker.

Is there anyone who lives near Indianapolis, Indiana willing to allow their sub to be tested..(would be cool just to see what the data really is anyhow.) (Klipsch, I am sure, might come up with a nice grab bag of goodies...T shirt or something I am sure for your time!) Maybe even Klipsch could buy a SVS sub and see and test it too?

All I can say is I have rock solid clean lows from my own experience. Everyone who hears a movie just drops their jaw in awe so far. I have not heard the SVS, never seen it in a stereo store or even used...(I know it is mail / internet computer order only) but I get tired of hearing about it all the time on the Klipsch BB. I have not checked, but does SVS have a BB that sais Klipsch makes the best speakers and Klipsch subs are better than SVS.. I wonder? This free advertising of SVS gets old to those of us happy with our Subs and my wish is that Klipsch needs to prove it has an equal or better product up for the challenege. I have a feeling Klipsch is up for the challenge!

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The RSW15 is a fantastic sub and is a formidable competitor to all but the super subs out there. No matter what though, there's no getting around the price/performance ratio of internet direct competitors like SVS/Hsu/Adire/and Stryke, so as long as there's an internet you'll probably still here about these subs.

I think it would be great if an SVS(or owners of other popular subs) would lend their subs to Klipsch for testing. I would if I were around the area. Didn't Trey Canon post something like that asking for SVS owners in the area once?

There is no SVS BB but TV stops by here every now and then.

Did you know Tom Vodhanel uses Klipsch Legends in his home theater.

[Guest Anonymous]

T V uses the KLF-30's, front for HT So he has good taste after all

[IndyKlipschFan]

Sure, at 3k + Ear.... Anything should at that $ level sound good. Heck, I could get a huge pro JBL cabinet to really move some air at 3500...LOL Were talking home use too, so scratch my idea..LOL.

I could get 2 RSW 15's for the price of the Revel. That said, I know your the BB SUB expert...and I do respect your thoughts as to why?

Has anyone ever produced the right room size dimentions to use in here for a HT? I have 10 foot ceilings 18 feet across and could go as far back as needed...30-34 feet if necessary to make an ideal room? Any thoughts...

[JewishAMerPrince]

Indy,

I understand your position completely. Let me provide a hypothesis of why one sees so many SVS recommendations here: The thing I like most about the Klipsch forums and "klipsch people" in general is that we tend to be a bit more open minded and intellegent than the average consumer (we DO own Klipsch and not the likes of BOSE after all). The Klipsch forums offer free and open discussion about our favorite products without any unwarrented censorship. These forums don't serve as advertising for Klipsch even though they are provided by Klipsch at their cost of of server space and maintenance. Negative comments about Klipsch products are not met with horror, but acceptance and some spirited debate.

SVS on the other hand does not provide a forum on their website, but they do have space on another forum that that identifies itself by the markings on a dog. That SVS site there is highly overcontrolled by the moderators and distinctly biased in favor of SVS. Any negative comments by SVS owners are met with a lot of what appears to be small minded blasting by overzealous SVS owners and frequent intervention by the moderators. Unfortunatly as a result, I think that more open minded SVS owners who also own Klipsch (there are a lot of us, myself included) would prefer to hang out and voice our opinions here where we currently have permission to do so without any external pressure. Perhaps that is why you see so many of us here. I would hate to see that change just because several can't tolerate diverse opinions that may vary from our own. Your idea of a challenge is a good one. Maybe you can find a way to overcome the logistical problems.

The RW 15 is a great sub, and I would have purchased it for MY theater setup if it had: first been able to produce the output that my over 7000 cu ft room requires and secondly, been as affordable as the SVS that I own. Unfortunatly, in the arena of subwoofers, one excellent sub does not meet all solutions. By specializing in subwoofers SVS just provides more solutions than Klipsch does at this moment.

Now to room dimensions. Just be sure that none of the dimensions are equally divisable by another. the 10 and the 18 are good, just don't make the third 30 or 36. Get the drift?

Jerry Rappaport

[Bruinsrme]

before I purchased my first SVS, I had asked Tom a number of questions. when I made mention of having theklipsch rsw10 and Klipsch fronts center and surrounds he worked with me in trying to get what I was looking for out of the RSW.

We spent about a week trying different things and I finally gave up and bought the PC2039.

The thing that had detered the purchase of an RSW 12 or 15 was the cost.

Well now more familiar with various resources the price different is not as much as before.

SVS has served my tastes well and have far exceeded my demands. I have been through the PC+ and the PB2+s now will be sampling the PC ULtras (only because of room issues).

I would be willing to give Klipsch RSW15 a try is the funds permit.

Scott

[Dustin B]

A review with measurements in the same room has already been done.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

[prodj101]

I don't mind the SV talk on the forum, but one thing I don't understand is why people get blasted when they talk about getting speakers other then Klipsch, but not subs. There are plenty of subwoofers on the market better then Klipsch, just as there are plenty of main speakers. What's the difference? Not too long ago there was a guy who had boughten some Paradigme's and boasted about how they were better than his old RF-3's or something and he was totally ripped into. People regularly come on and post about how their new SV is much better then the comparable Klipsch. Why can this pass but a comparison between floorstanders cannot?

[Cleve]

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On 2/1/2004 10:49:22 AM Dustin B wrote:

A review with measurements in the same room has already been done.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html

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To be fair to the Klipsch, it was going up against a pair of SVS cylinders that cost almost $1000 more than the RSW-15. However, it's disappointing to see how much(and how steeply) the Klipsch rolls off at 30 hz and below, and the meager overall sound pressure levels from 20-30 hz. I'd hate to see a similar chart of my RW-12.

At any rate, I'd like to see a similar SPL chart for SVS' box subs, particularly the PB2 plus. I'm oriented towards performance metrics, rather than descriptives. 'Gee' and 'Wow' don't mean a hill of beans - if it can be heard, then it can be measured and quantified! If it can't, it's irrelevant. Regardless,I am curious how the RSW-15 gets 'low' compared to its single 'box' counterparts from SVS.

[prodj101]

the numbers are still impressive for the RSW-15. plus we don't know the exact room conditions that were used to do the testing. all I know is that mine can go with ease loud enough to give me a headach for a week...I have never gotten it to distort on ANY material, and it has performed to my expectations in every way. plus I think it looks alot better then anything SVS makes

[fabulousfrankie]

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On 2/1/2004 1:42:21 PM Cleve wrote:

To be fair to the Klipsch, it was going up against a pair of SVS cylinders that cost almost $1000 more than the RSW-15. However, it's disappointing to see how much(and how steeply) the Klipsch rolls off at 30 hz and below, and the meager overall sound pressure levels from 20-30 hz. I'd hate to see a similar chart of my RW-12.

At any rate, I'd like to see a similar SPL chart for SVS' box subs, particularly the PB2 plus. I'm oriented towards performance metrics, rather than descriptives. 'Gee' and 'Wow' don't mean a hill of beans - if it can be heard, then it can be measured and quantified! If it can't, it's irrelevant. Regardless,I am curious how the RSW-15 gets 'low' compared to its single 'box' counterparts from SVS.

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The subs were colocated so during the test so you can just subtract somewhere around 5-6dB across the board to get and accurate idea of what just a single cylinder would do.

This an excellent review of of the PB2 Plus in various tuning/SS filter variations with good objective data over at hometheaterforum.com. If you want to search for it the guys user name is Edward J M.

[FirebirdTN]

From a newbys standpoint (both in regards to the forum, AND HT):

I understand where your coming from. My main hobby is computers, NOT HT. However, I have frequented a BUNCH of forums trying to get educated, and buy the best prodects for MY needs that fall within MY budget (i.e ALOT lower than most of the posters here).

I REALLY appreciate this kind of forum. In all the forums I have been too (including the many many dozens of PC forums), this kind of open attitude towards discussion of competing products is very rare, but very welcom in my eyes.

You guys will laugh I'm sure, but how I got my start into wanting a nice, inexpensive HT was by buying a set of computer speakers for my computer. I had never even HEARD of Klipsh until that point. For "computer" speakers, I was totally blown away. They sounded so good, it put my then current "home entertainment" system to shame.

I was sold on Klipsh, and chose the Quintets for my budget HT. I love them and have no regrets. But with a rather large living room, I figured I should be able to do better than the matching KSW sub for a little more money, without breaking the bank.

There was only two subs companies that kept coming up repeatedly in every forum I went to. They both fell in my budget, but I picked the one that seemed to be the most popular, and most asthetically pleasing to me.

It was a little high for what I have seen when comparing the subs in the local B&M stores. I honestly didn't even know there was a whole community of "high end" equipment out there. The only brands I had ever heard of were McIntosh, and those at the local B&M.

Okay....I am going off on a rant here LOL...Bottom line, I know its dicomforting to see the Klipsh forums used for what seems like advertising space for the competition, but I for one appreciate all the posts (positive AND negative). Kudos to the Klipsch forum for helping me make an informed purchase to get the most for my dollar.

Oh, and rest assured, when I am ready for a pair of Floor-Standers for music duties, there is only one brand I am even considering...

Klipsch...I'll be back...

-Alan

[SteelerFan]

It's the "bang for the buck" factor that makes SVS so popular on this forum and alot of others. The RSW-15 is a great sub and one I'd love to have but is out of my price range unless I'd go unauthorized. To me the RSW-15 is too big and heavy and complicated to take a chance on buying without a factory warranty.

[richr8]

I agree. I would like to stay with an all Klipsch set up, but with the RSW 15 priced at twice what some of the performance competition is, I stop and think, hard. I'm all for product loyalty up to about an additional 15%.

[Groovie]

"Not too long ago there was a guy who had boughten some Paradigme's and boasted about how they were better than his old RF-3's or something and he was totally ripped into."

Have you ever directly compared Paradigm to Klipsch?

I think the reason people are so adamant about mains vs. subs is that there is so much more range in the mains. The dynamic range of sound in the mains lends much more to individual opinion, where the less dynamic range of the sub has a more universal appeal. The masses can formulate a like or dislike for the main speaker and one can easily appreciate ones own taste for the difference in the mains, where the sub takes a finer more professionally attuned ear to discern the differences.

So what I am trying to get at here is that most people get the difference in mains and are much more fanatic about their personal beliefs and just don't take the time to discern the subtleties of the sub!

Back to Paradigm and Klipsch, I comparred them in a well designed audio store and personnally the Klipsch RF series simply blew them away! JMO

[Dustin B]

Not really important but I think there should be a clarification of dynamic range.

Subs often have more dynamic range than main speakers. Dynamic range is the differences between how quiet and how loud they can get.

Where there is a big difference is in the range of frequencies they play (pass band, bandwidth, and many other terms for this).

But I do completely agree with the underlying intention of your post. Sub tastes can be divided into 2-4 categories that pretty much everyone would fit in. While main speakers have a much greater variance in how they sound and what people like.

[fire pinch]

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On 2/6/2004 9:49:06 AM Groovie wrote:

"Not too long ago there was a guy who had boughten some Paradigme's and boasted about how they were better than his old RF-3's or something and he was totally ripped into."

Have you ever directly compared Paradigm to Klipsch?

I think the reason people are so adamant about mains vs. subs is that there is so much more range in the mains. The dynamic range of sound in the mains lends much more to individual opinion, where the less dynamic range of the sub has a more universal appeal. The masses can formulate a like or dislike for the main speaker and one can easily appreciate ones own taste for the difference in the mains, where the sub takes a finer more professionally attuned ear to discern the differences.

So what I am trying to get at here is that most people get the difference in mains and are much more fanatic about their personal beliefs and just don't take the time to discern the subtleties of the sub!

Back to Paradigm and Klipsch, I comparred them in a well designed audio store and personnally the Klipsch RF series simply blew them away! JMO

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Which Paradigm speakers did you listened too? The main contest I see frequently is comparisons between the Paradigm Reference series and the Klipsch RF series. For the average Jo who use a 100W receiver, the Klipsch really shine because they are so sensitive. I like personnally the sound of the Klispch Reference series because they are very dynamic, female voices sounds really good you get a really live sound with them, like if you were on the stage! But when you match the Paradigm Reference series with a very powerfull amp, lets say a 250W great quality amp, NOW you are talking more! They are simply power hungry and they needs power to come alive. In my opinion, I find the Paradigm Refs to brings more details and imaging. Lets say that if I could have a powerfull amp, I would buy them without any hesitations. But with a lower amp, I wouldnt insisit on the digms Reference and bewteen them or Klipsch, Id choose Klipsch. Just my preference and anyway, every people have different tastes and opinion!

[formica]

I don't doubt that both (RSW and SVS) subs are quite potent... and surely please their respective buyers. But like anything else in audio, hype and psychoacoustics play a part in our perception of performance (Klipsch AND SVS included).

IndyKlipschFan, I like your idea... as it would be fun to see a third party laboratory testing. Perhaps you'd get more takers with a header like: "Indianapolis SVS owners needed". The only catch I see is publicly releasing any data collected... and the fact that Klipsch would have to release similar data on their own products as a comparison. I'm not talking about marketing FR curves either.

Just a thought...

Rob