minn_male42 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ---------------- On 2/26/2004 12:39:50 AM toddvj wrote: Another Vote for the Pioneer. And this is coming from a Denon Owner. I previously owned 3 different Pioneer Elites before my current receiver, but would go back in a heartbeat if they could just figure out how to make Multi-Room/Multi-Source work (right now, you have to get a device that they don't even manufacture anymore if you want to control your second room with remote, whereas the Denon has 2nd room controls right on the remote.)---------------- i have a second room hooked-up right now with my vsx-55txi and my remote does all the functions on the main system.... i am using an atlas sound infrared system to control everything from a different room...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Does the remote have multi room functions? Are you using a IR flasher, or is the IR system plugged directly into the back of the Receiver? I tried using a Niles IR system, in every conceivable configuration, and couldn't get it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ---------------- On 2/26/2004 12:54:14 AM toddvj wrote: Does the remote have multi room functions? Are you using a IR flasher, or is the IR system plugged directly into the back of the Receiver? I tried using a Niles IR system, in every conceivable configuration, and couldn't get it to work. ---------------- i am using an ir flasher system.... works great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I've got the Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi, with the Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai universal player. Actually, I should say I have them when they are not in the shop, which is where they both are right now. I bought the pair last summer. After three months, the receiver's power transformer began buzzing loudly enough I could hear it across the room. That was repaired by replacing the transformer. Only two months in the shop. After getting the receiver home, I could no longer play DVD-A discs through the "i-link" (IEEE1394) connection. So, I put the player in the shop. After another month passes, they called wanting the receiver, so today I took it back up. (90 miles one-way to the authorized Pioneer repair facility.) I'm supposed to hear something by the end of the week. So, to be honest, I love the Pioneer units when I have them and they are working properly, but mine have not been too reliable so far. Hopefully after this firewire/DVD-A bugaboo is sorted out, all will be smooth sailing from here on. They are both gorgeous pieces, and the receiver is a killer for the money. The MCACC is a real benefit you can hear. But the new Denon 3805 and the Yamaha RX-V2400 actually trump Pioneer here, by offering multi-band para-metric eq's instead of Pioneer's 7-band graphic. And true, the fact the Pioneer does not convert video is a bit of a pain, but no big deal in my book. So, if I had it to do again, would I go with Pioneer? Hard to say. I still love the elegance of the i-link, but reliability problems are no fun. Especially considering that 90-mile drive to the repair shack. I think Denon would be my choice today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klpschfan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Mr McCall above me here hit the nail on the head. The Pioneer's MCACC on the VSX55 is a 5 band graphic eq. The Room EQ on the Denon is 8 band parametric. Also there is lots of talk of the I'link in the Pioneer to connect to Pioneers DVD-A/SACD/DVD player. The Denon unit has Denon's D'Link ( RJ45 connector ) for connection to their DVD5900 and works the same as Pioneers I'link, only a different plug. As far as simple remote like someone mentioned above, the AVR3805 has a touchscreen LCD remote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ---------------- On 2/26/2004 9:21:28 AM klpschfan wrote: Mr McCall above me here hit the nail on the head. The Pioneer's MCACC on the VSX55 is a 5 band graphic eq. The Room EQ on the Denon is 8 band parametric. Also there is lots of talk of the I'link in the Pioneer to connect to Pioneers DVD-A/SACD/DVD player. The Denon unit has Denon's D'Link ( RJ45 connector ) for connection to their DVD5900 and works the same as Pioneers I'link, only a different plug. As far as simple remote like someone mentioned above, the AVR3805 has a touchscreen LCD remote. ---------------- Then it's good to see that Denon is doing it right. (or as right as EQ correction can be, anyway) A straight graphic EQ with fixed bands and fixed Q is the totally WRONG approach to EQ correction. As Ethan laid out in the article above, a parametric that can be dialed in tight to notch specific frequencies is a much more effective approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 The Denons have only a propreitary link for DVD-A and SACD even though they claim to have an i.link. The Pioneer has a link that works with other players with i.link. Pioneer, Sony and Yamaha machines with i.link all talk to each other. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ---------------- On 2/26/2004 11:22:55 AM MrMcGoo wrote: The Denons have only a propreitary link for DVD-A and SACD even though they claim to have an i.link. The Pioneer has a link that works with other players with i.link. Pioneer, Sony and Yamaha machines with i.link all talk to each other. Bill ---------------- Well it's up to you, of course, but I don't see how that one feature is worth all the headaches I'm reading about from Pioneer owners above, or the sacrifice of other, more crucial features like quality of DSP and quality of equalization... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I've had a Denon 3801 for 3 years now and have enjoyed it, no problems. When I think of Pioneer products I've owned, JD's experience comes to mind. For what its worth. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 ---------------- On 2/26/2004 11:31:15 AM Griffinator wrote: Well it's up to you, of course, but I don't see how that one feature is worth all the headaches I'm reading about from Pioneer owners above, or the sacrifice of other, more crucial features like quality of DSP and quality of equalization... ---------------- Owners??? All the Headaches??? I only saw one person who had problems above. And you're right, that one feature may not be all that great, but SOUND QUALITY IS. That's why I would go with the Pioneer. p.s. Is the Denon DVD-5900 down to 2 Grand Yet? I wouldn't exactly say Denon's D'link is a competitive edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I use a Yamaha RX-V3300 and I am really happy with it. I used to have a Denon/Dbx combo but the channel imaging began to bleed together. They were 20 years old so I updated. Anyway years ago I would have exclusively said Denon and tried to dissuade you from Yamaha but not now. I am not a big Pioneer fan but I have not demod their Elite line. I know their Plasma's look good and I do have a Pioneer LD player and its a pretty nice unit. I guess the long and short of it is demo them and pick what you like. When you do demo make sure the same intangibles are used so you'll be comparing peers rather than the default setup the retailer has, which is likely to be sure to be biased towards his bigger ticket items. The RF 7's are very efficient so power should not be your primary concern but don't under power your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bchild311 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Dusty, here is a pretty decent review on the 3805: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/AudioholicsReviewDenonAVR-3805.html Makes me wanna upgrade:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klpschfan Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 This seems to have came down to a battle between the Pioneer and the Denon. I currently own a Denon AVr3802, but don't think I am biased to Denon for that. I have always been a Pioneer fan, and indeed work for a dealer that has both Pioneer Elite and Denon. The Elites from 2001 and earlier had a real bad hiss sound in the signal, and did not work very well with Klisch at all cause of it. Now sarting the the "4" series ( vsxd43, 45, so on and so forth ) Pioneer redsigned the amp section, and the hiss became less aparent. I will not say it went away cause the last model I was messing around with ( the 53 ) if volumn was turned 3/4 of the way up and playing a CD in between tracks you could still hear a lil hiss noise, although nowhere near as aparent as on earlier models. This was on a set of RF35's. I have heard, but not experienced, people complaining that the Pioneers I'link has had some troubles working with other brands equipment. Since I have not tried useing the I'link at all I cannot confirm this myself. However here are a few comparisons between the Denon and the Pioneer. Component Video Inputs: Denon 3 - Pioneer 2 Power: Denon 120x7 - Pioneer 100x7 S-video inputs/outputs: Denon 7/3 - Pioneer 5/2 Composit Video Inputs/outputs: same as above EQ: Denon 8 band Parametric "Room EQ" - Pioneer 5 band Graphic "MCACC" Crossover Frequency: Denon 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 150, 200, 250 - Pioneer not sure of frequencies, but not 8 of them Both have a 2 year manufacturer's warranty if bought from a AUTHORIZED DEALER, NOT ONLINE. The Pioneer has a nice 50 button remote that all the buttons glow a orangish red color. The AVR3805 has a cool blue touchscreen LCD remote. Also the 3805's Room EQ Is believed ( no one knows for sure since they havn't played with it, my rep told me this ) to do a speaker phase calibration as well from 0-180 degrees. WHen I find a pic of the 3805 remote I will post a link to it. Ultimately what will make or break this deal is for you to find a dealer of each piece in your area and go give them a demo and see which you like best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 " I have heard, but not experienced, people complaining that the Pioneers I'link has had some troubles working with other brands equipment." you have it backwards... the denon system is incompatible with other brands.... pioneer uses an industry standard and other brands will work with it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 It doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks you should get. If at all possible, test drive the receiver in your house with the rest of your equipment. I will defend what I own however. So many years of hearing this "bright/warm" debate, I still don't get it. SO many variables play in how everything comes together. I honestly think if some of those owners of "warm" equipment were to come and listen to the gear here in my living room... I think they really wouldn't knock it at all. If this is "bright"... I'll take it! Take care Mike (The Yamaha/Hsu Underdog) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Eq's what?! I used to be a firm believer in them untill i heard a good amp that didn't need one. When you use an eq and like to crank it. It is distortion city and is harmfull to the tweeters and woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Pioneer equipment had a great reputation in the 70's and 80's. Because of this, I bought a Pioneer VSX-3600 home theater receiver new in 1990. It worked great for 4 years, then developed a nasty, window rattling hum that played through the speakers - the display also dimmed significantly when this occured. I took it in for service, spent over $100 - waited months for it to get fixed, then it worked well for a while, then the hum reappeared, the display flickered, etc. I found that a sharp rap on the chassis would make it stop - for a while. It developed some other issues and ended up in the trash dumpster about 9 years after I bought it - I wasn't going to throw good money after bad. My first, and LAST, Pioneer purchase. I can't speak for their receivers, but I owned a Denon DRM series 3 head cassette deck in the 80's - wonderful piece of equipment with a very heavy duty transport and terrific sound. Unfortunately, it, along with my wonderful, irreplacable Dynaco FM-5 tuner were stolen from my apartment in the mid-80's while I was away for Christmas. Good luck with your Denon. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I was a big Pioneer fan back in the late seventies / early eighties. Had a whole cabinet full of it, and it was all solid and reliable. I've also had good luck with Yamaha, Luxman and Sony. The only stuff I've owned that has been less than satisfactory was some Hafler gear I bought used, and this new Pioneer equipment - which reminds me: a couple of years ago the CD-ROM drive on our then three year old computer bit the dust. Guess who made it? PIONEER! Do I sense a trend here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klpschfan Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 I just found your thread with this very same question over on AVSforums. Every single person there voted for the Pioneer, they all every one also owned the Pioneer or a Pioneer reciever. Not a single one mentioned owning Klipsch Speakers. One guy over there said that Denons were not a good match with Klipsch Speakers. He is the only one that I will say straight up has never heard the combo, he had no idea what he was saying. In my opinion, and I am sure many on this board will tell you, Denon matches up VERY well with Denon. As a retailer that sells both Denon and Pioneer, many of my customers, and indeed myself, feel that Denon Matches better with the Klipsch speakers than Pioneer does. I know I seem to be pushing hard on the Denon, fact of the matter is, I don't care what you get, as long as you are happy with it, I just think you would be happier with the Denon. Everyone makes a big deal about the Pioneer haveing I'Link. Ask youself, do you plan on useing I'link or a DVD player with I'link? That one argument is the only one anyone is offering recommending the Pioneer Over the Denon. Go ahead and buy the speakers, then see if your local dealer will let you audition the recievers on your set up for a couple days and see which you like best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted February 27, 2004 Author Share Posted February 27, 2004 I couldn't care less about the I-Link, I use an HTPC for DVD. But several people actually claim to have a Klipsch/Pioneer 55TX combo and are very happy with it. I'll audition them either in the store or at home(hopefully at home). I did audition the Denon 3803 once in Ultimate Electronics with the Klipsch RF-5s I think. I couldn't find a sales person to help me, so I had to set it up myself. I was distressed because i had to turn the volume way up on the Denon to get a good loud sound. I tried messing with different settings, but nothing really changed. Was their Denon not working properly or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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