chuckears Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Rats... I had read that the new DLP projectors had gotten so good, the "rainbow" effect that many viewers have reported being susceptible to was no longer an issue. I dropped in the nearest higher-end HT boutique yesterday, and took a look at a $15,000 Runco, displaying X-Men on an 84" Stewart Greyhawk. Within a couple of minutes, I saw my first rainbows; and saw them again two or three times within about ten minutes. So what other FP options does one have, besides the huge, expensive, high-maintainence CRT's? (They have a nice $40,000 one of those, too... huge gorgeous image...). ...and does anyone else here have this same problem? I'm also bothered by low-refresh rates on computer monitors... anything less than 70 Hz, and the flickering drives me damn near insane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 From what I understand Chuck, if you seem em you see em and always will. And the number of poeple that see em is in the minority. I've never seen them in any DLp setup, but then again I sucked at Magic Eye when that was popular... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 ---------------- On 4/1/2004 9:10:54 PM chuckears wrote: So what other FP options does one have, besides the huge, expensive, high-maintainence CRT's? (They have a nice $40,000 one of those, too... huge gorgeous image...). .---------------- high-maintainence CRT's??? .... cathode ray tubes...... we are talking about regular tube t.v.'s here aren't we? since when are they high maintainence?..... and they still do provide the best picture..... i love to go and look at a $25,000 plasma with my favorite DVD...and then go home and see a better picture on my 35" mitsuibishi that i bought in 1987..... (and never have i had to have it serviced or "maintained") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 yeah, maybe thats why i dont see any either, I cant ever figure out the magic eye thing. perhaps thats a good thing, i mean, i guess if you can train your eye to see it once, it will learn it as an adaptation, and could apply it to seeing rainbows. Anyway, when i get the projector, rest assured I wont ever try to see a magic eye or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 ---------------- On 4/1/2004 10:19:38 PM Ou8thisSN wrote: yeah, maybe thats why i dont see any either, I cant ever figure out the magic eye thing. perhaps thats a good thing, i mean, i guess if you can train your eye to see it once, it will learn it as an adaptation, and could apply it to seeing rainbows. Anyway, when i get the projector, rest assured I wont ever try to see a magic eye or something ---------------- That's what stinks... I never tried to see it at all; in fact, the first time I noticed it with a DLP, I wasn't even thinking about it, even though I had read about rainbows previously. Again with the Runco, I was not thinking about the rainbow effect, but when I saw it, I found myself trying to find it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 ---------------- On 4/1/2004 9:10:54 PM chuckears wrote: Rats... I had read that the new DLP projectors had gotten so good, the "rainbow" effect that many viewers have reported being susceptible to was no longer an issue. I dropped in the nearest higher-end HT boutique yesterday, and took a look at a $15,000 Runco, displaying X-Men on an 84" Stewart Greyhawk. Within a couple of minutes, I saw my first rainbows; and saw them again two or three times within about ten minutes. So what other FP options does one have, besides the huge, expensive, high-maintainence CRT's? (They have a nice $40,000 one of those, too... huge gorgeous image...). ...and does anyone else here have this same problem? I'm also bothered by low-refresh rates on computer monitors... anything less than 70 Hz, and the flickering drives me damn near insane... ---------------- Some of that has to do with the video connections and dvd player. The better the quality the less the rainbow effect to an extent. I think you mean the moiring you get when you watch a dvd. Sometimes you get jitters from horizontal and vertical lines. The dvd player helps the most. My new player got rid of some flicker on an old oval rug scene in the movie signs. This is with s video to. I would love to see what my onkyo is really capable of. I see that rainbow effect alot on satellite tv with my crt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 ---------------- .---------------- high-maintainence CRT's??? .... cathode ray tubes...... we are talking about regular tube t.v.'s here aren't we? since when are they high maintainence?..... and they still do provide the best picture..... i love to go and look at a $25,000 plasma with my favorite DVD...and then go home and see a better picture on my 35" mitsuibishi that i bought in 1987..... (and never have i had to have it serviced or "maintained") ---------------- Here is an example of a CRT projector http://www.projectorsprojectors.com/runco/runco_dtv1200/runco_dtv1200.html and yes, it's a cathode-ray tube (3, actually), but as a front projector, and capable of terrific images and high resolutions, but with bulbs that will have to be replaced, and in need of calibration, usually at least once a year, from what I have been told Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 sorry... that's how out of the loop i am when it comes to video.... i didn't realize that you were talking about a projector..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckears Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 minn_male, Hey, I only know what I know about projectors from what I can remember from my internet reading habits, and from the couple of afternoons I've spent playing around at the local shop. And I still confuse all of the little abbreviations: CRT, LCD, DLP, LCOS... BFD! I mainly know I'll never be able to afford what I really like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Chuckears, take a look at this Sony. I haven't tried mine with HDTV but with DVD's, I am very happy. I paid $2900. It is the VPL-HS20. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=y3fU_rb-iLDU1PaSLxve9fnwVAwrAc9NzvE=?ProductSKU=VPLHS20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old Klipsch fan Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 You know its funny that you mentioned seeing the "rainbow effect" anymore because I JUST got a note back from Texas Instr. and had asked if and when this was going to be addressed and they assured me that this would depend on the manufacturer of the set. They have a faster wheel now and this was suppose to eliminate the rainbow effect seen by some people. Samsung from what I"ve read and RCA with there newer sets are the better sets to view. I"m waiting till the newer sets become available in my area. Right now the retail stores(CC BB) don't carry them. There trying to get rid of the older models first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 chuckears: I've been watching my Sharp XV-Z9000U DLP connected to a Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai DVD player via a Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi Receiver and a 25-ft Monster M-Silver component cable now for over a year and I nor anyone who has watched it with me has ever noticed any rainbows. I also suck at Magic Eye, but my wife, who does not see any rainbows either, is a champ at Magic Eye. -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 ---------------- On 4/1/2004 10:27:15 PM wheelman wrote: Some of that has to do with the video connections and dvd player. The better the quality the less the rainbow effect to an extent. I think you mean the moiring you get when you watch a dvd. Sometimes you get jitters from horizontal and vertical lines. The dvd player helps the most. My new player got rid of some flicker on an old oval rug scene in the movie signs. This is with s video to(o). I would love to see what my onkyo is really capable of. I see that rainbow effect alot on satellite tv with my crt. ---------------- Totally seperate issue. He is talking specifically about a Rainbow effect on DLP TVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 When is someone going to make a half way decent 100 inch, 7,000 pound tube TV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 BBB: Hey, I know just the speakers to go with that... -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 ---------------- On 4/1/2004 11:10:22 PM wrench_peddler wrote: Chuckears, take a look at this Sony. I haven't tried mine with HDTV but with DVD's, I am very happy. I paid $2900. It is the VPL-HS20. http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=y3fU_rb-iLDU1PaSLxve9fnwVAwrAc9NzvE=?ProductSKU=VPLHS20 ---------------- i haven't finished reading this thread, but I KNOW YOUR PAIN!! i also have seen rainbows when i auditioned a DLP pj at my house.i decided to get the sony vpl hs-10,and the hs-20 is an improvement over my pj. i compared the hs-20 to the sharp xvz-10000u DLP w/hd2 chip and i thought the sharp had a good picture,but preferred the color on the sony, and we sell them for $2,850! as an example,if you burn-in an image on your plasma display,you'll forget about everything else about picture quality and always focus on the shadow of the burned image.likewise,if you see rainbows w/DLP,that will be the END of you enjoying watching it. my advice is check out the sony vpl-hs20. avman. BTW-wrenchpeddler GET HD HOOKED UP TO YOUR HS-20...IT WILL KNOCK YOUR EYES OUT!!! avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Chuckears - I understand your issues. I have compared the following projectors all at the same time in the same room: the Runco 710, the Infocus 5700, Sanyo Z2, Sony HS-10, and Sony HS-20. All the projectors used the same source and were briefly calibrated using Avia and Video Essentials (briefly meaning we did not have time to do full grayscale calibrations). HDNet was shown over the Projectors DVI inputs and DVD's were shown using the Componet inputs. All the projectors were shooting onto a 110" high Power Screen. I did not see rainbows but the DLP's (Runco and Infocus) did make me feel seasick. Both these units have the 6x color wheel. So it is LCD for me. Screendoor was noticable on the LCD models at about 4 to 5 feet from the screen. Any further then that and it was not noticed by me. Here are my impressions - First up was the Runco 710 and Infocus5700. Both the Runco and Infocus units were very impressive but there was no way that I would pay the extra $4000 dollars for the Runco unit. It had a slight edge while viewing HD material (HDNet) but that edge went away when viewing DVD's. We then viewed the Sony HS-20 vs the Infocus 5700. The Sony had an advantage with HD material but once again DVD's looked the same. The Sony HS-10 and HS-20 were almost identical with the edge going to the HS-20 in all cases. We then looked at the Sayno Z2 vs the Sony HS-20. Again the edge went to the Sony HS-20 in all cases. Now here is the short list pro/con list (my opinions only): Runco - too expensive, seasick inducing (~$9000) Infocus - mid price, seasick inducing, long throw range (~$3200) Sony HS-20 - mid price, medium throw, HMDI interface (~$3000) Sony HS-10 - Same as above without some of the new features (~$2300) Sayno Z2 - Budget priced, lens shift, short throw (~$1900) All of the projectors had awesome pictures and the one you get will depend more on the room and personal taste then anything else. You can goto http://www.projectorcental.com for reviews, specs, and throw distance calculations. I would get the Infocus if I didn't get seasick and my room was large enough for it's throw range, next would be the Sony HS-20 because of it's wide range of inputs and stunning picture, and then the Sayno Z2 because for the price it is unbeatable. I am getting the Sayno Z2 because it is the best fit for my room and the picture is awesome for the price. I am looking at this projector as a short term investment (2 to 3 years of use) because 1080p projectors are starting to be released now and in 3 years I should be able to afford one. With 1080p projectors and HD-DVD coming in the next couple of years I think it would be foolish to spend more than $4000 on a projector today (unless of course you are rich). Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 ---------------- On 4/2/2004 12:29:33 PM eq_shadimar wrote: We then viewed the Sony HS-20 vs the Infocus 5700. The Sony had an advantage with HD material but once again DVD's looked the same. The Sony HS-10 and HS-20 were almost identical with the edge going to the HS-20 in all cases. We then looked at the Sayno Z2 vs the Sony HS-20. Again the edge went to the Sony HS-20 in all cases. Now here is the short list pro/con list (my opinions only): Runco - too expensive, seasick inducing (~$9000) Infocus - mid price, seasick inducing, long throw range (~$3200) Sony HS-20 - mid price, medium throw, HMDI interface (~$3000) Sony HS-10 - Same as above without some of the new features (~$2300) Sayno Z2 - Budget priced, lens shift, short throw (~$1900) All of the projectors had awesome pictures and the one you get will depend more on the room and personal taste then anything else. You can goto http://www.projectorcental.com for reviews, specs, and trhow distance calculations. I would get the Infocus if I didn't get seasick and my room was large enough for it's throw range, next would be the Sony HS-20 because of it's wide range of inputs and stunning picture, and then the Sayno Z2 because for the price it is unbeatable. With 1080p projectors and HD-DVD coming in the next couple of years I think it would be foolish to spend more than $4000 on a projector today (unless of course you are rich). Laters, Jeff ---------------- be sure to look to SONY for the BEST picture you may have EVER seen on ANY display...it is called SXRD and is an example of what Sony can do! SiliconCrystal(Xtal)ReflectiveDisplay TRUE 1080p capability!! now this pj is WAAYYY out of my(and most people's)price range(about $25k)BUT i am hoping and EXPECTING this SXRD technology to 'trickle down' into other Sony video products,and hopefully into a price range I can afford. eq_shadimar- headaches/nausea/eyestrain i didn't experience those,but once i saw rainbows, i saw them over and over and over... Sony VPL-HS20!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed3 Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 I see rainbows also. I didn't even know such a thing existed when I first noticed it. Basically, whenever I go from focusing on one particular part of the screen and quickly my eyes move to another portion of the screen, I see a rainbow colored fence across the screen. It's very distracting once you see it once. Basically, if I look from side to side quickly it happens every time. I don't think I could ever own DLP because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Chuck- Sniff out a good condition used CRT projector and you won't have to deal with the rainbows, and be well ahead in your bank account because of it. That's the route I'm going as I don't have a ton of cash for a projector (finishing the basement) and a used $2000-2500 CRT machine will certainly outperform a similarly priced digital unit. You'd have to spend a big chunk of money on a new digital unit to get a really good picture, and you may still have the rainbows. My CRT, when new, was well over $10K, so that's a nice price break and I should get about 9000-10,000 hours on the tubes, so when those are done, hopefully digital will have made some good strides and maybe even beat CRT. Hopefully everything will be up and running by early June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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