Is "Monster Cable" really worth it...

[Fried Elliott]

quote:

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Originally posted by samuel r:

sorry fred, i didn't mean to put that quote in. just experimenting and it went through...all of it. hope you didn't think i was mocking you.

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No problem! I have no doubt what you say is true. I think the core of my observation was to say well terminated, well shielded, and good solid connections are the critical elements. And it sounds like you have such a system. I think my point may be a literal one; i.e., the actual "wire", other than a very nominal current carrying capacity, is not the issue. And, depending on the quality of the passive filter components used in their HTS1000 and similar items, that too can make quite an improvement in signal quality.

*** I am NOT saying what follows is in any way related to you or your experience with Monster products!! ***

I think alot of the Monster bandwagon is urban myth and a very cool name. I mean, wouldn't YOU use wire the size of jumper cables to hook up your 500MW amp? What? You mean you don't have a 5000MW amp? Dude! Speaking of 5000MW amps, that remind me of...

THE ORIGIN OF MONSTER CABLE

Once upon a time I had "Stairway To Heaven" cranked up on my 5000MW amp and I started getting static and popping in one of my speakers. Now, chances are its not because of the cheapo 18 gauge zipcord I used --- its because the speakers have been dancing around the floor the past six months and the last little strands of copper are hanging on for dear life in the little clippy binding post thingies (a technical term I picked up on another thread here on this forum!) But I am not paying very close attention to the details and since I am pretty sure the 5000MW of POWER is not getting to my speakers, I figure I need MORE WIRE. I mean, just look at those fat pipes the electricity comes into my house on, right? So I go out to the garage, grab the jumper cables, clamp them babies in there, and wow! What an improvement! Anyway, from that point on, everytime me and the homies are chillin' listening to "Stairway", we flash back to that whole scene with the jumper cables and we tell everyone our story. The rest is history.

[JLOUNDER]

This wire thing just keeps coming up and no one has settled it yet. In the field of fishing more lures were created to catch fisherman than fish. The same holds true with speaker cable and interconnects. I've tried a lot of different brands and finally settled on Monster speaker cable and Mogami interconnects. They both suit me just fine. I just can't justify spending huge amounts for them. Common sense has to come into play in this somewhere.

JRL

[samuel r]

you're right jlounder. common sense does play a big role. if one feels monster works ok for them, why not stick with it. you're getting a decent wire at a decent price. why boggle your head with so many choices just to come home with another wire and see if there is any difference. i like monster and that's all i use. i like to keep everything as uniform as possible when it comes to wires. if i were to purchase another brand wire, then i would have to replace the rest with that brand. but that's just how i am. monster is a nice affordable good product. enjoy!

[samuel r]

you're right jlounder. common sense does play a big role. if one feels monster works ok for them, why not stick with it. you're getting a decent wire at a decent price. why boggle your head with so many choices just to come home with another wire and see if there is any difference. i like monster and that's all i use. i like to keep everything as uniform as possible when it comes to wires. if i were to purchase another brand wire, then i would have to replace the rest with that brand. but that's just how i am. monster is a nice affordable good product. enjoy

[soundog]

I found that better interconnects prior to amplification made a difference. Bi-wiring the Khorns made a difference. I found the RS Gold cables are fine for many applications with all I would get the RS cables and compare them with more expensive cables. Only try those that can be returned for full credit on your credit card. I also found that the Monster Power Conditioner made a difference. But if your speakers and amps are not of very good quality, Id recommend sticking with RS Gold.

HT-1 (music oriented)

Klipschorns w/ ALK crossover upgrades

4 Klipsch LaScalas (surround & rears)

Heresy components in custom cabinet /monitor stand (center)

Panasonic 32 Monitor W/ component video input

3 Sony CX400 CD changers

Sony CX-200 CD Changer

MSB Technology Digital Director w/ jitter reduction

Nirvis DXS digital controller (auto selection of whatever changer is playing)

Nirvis Slink-e computer interface (downloads cd info, programs & controls changers).

Nirvis CDJ (CD Jukebox Software)

Monster 5000 Power Center (serves HT-2 also)

Sony Viao Laptop Computer

Sony S530D DVD Player

Sony 798HF VCR

Sony XA1ES CD player

Sherwood HX-PRO dual cassette deck

Dynaco PAS4 stereo preamp W/ Tesla Tube upgrades (also outputs to HT2)

Technics SL3300 DD Turntable w/ Shure cartridges

Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver

Perpetual Technologies P1A Digital Correction Engine (jitter reduction, 16 to 24 bit conversion, future speaker frequency correction, and room acoustic correction )

Perpetual Technologies P3A DAC ( plus 44.1k to 96k CD upsampling)

Klipsch KSW-15 sub (for DVD LFEs )

Klipsch LF-10 sub

Phillips Pronto TS2000 Programmable Remote

Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal

X10 computerized lighting controls

Radio Shack Wireless Remote Control Extender

Cables: Onix, MSB, Monster, AR., RS Gold

Monster Bi-wire speaker cables. (Khorns)

HT#2 (movie oriented)

4 Klipsch KT-LCR THX Speakers

4 Klipsch RS-3s (side & rear surround)

2 Klipsch KT-DS THX Surrounds

10 Linaem Tweeters

Outlaw 1050 6.1 A/V Receiver/Preamp

Sony X111 ES CD Player

Sony 775HF VCR

Sony STR-G3 (supplemental amplification for extra speakers)

Toshiba 61 High Definition TV

Sony NS700 Progressive Scan DVD

Toshiba 4205 DVD/ CD Changer

Klipsch SW-12II Sub

Klipsch LF-10 sub

Sony AV2100 remote

Scientific American Explorer 2000 Home Communications Terminal

X10 Computerized Lighting

Vibrapods (vibration isolation)

RS Gold & Monster Cables

[Rob_S]

For the perusal of anyone interested:

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002599.html

scroll down to the post by "eyespy."

[T2K]

I was at Wal-Mart today and noticed they had a barrel of 10 foot extension cords(black and white)for 3/$1.

They should make really good speaker wire.You'll have to get a roll of lectrical tape though to splice together long runs.The bad part is they will probably not sound good cause you're paying so little for them.

Oh yeah,wire is wire,huh? They all sound the same.

Keith

[T2K]

**********************FOR SALE*************************

BOX FULL OF BRAND NEW NEVER USED FACTORY INTERCONNECTS.

SPACE SAVING SMALL DIAMETER WIRE.IF ENDS FALL OFF CAN BE USED FOR SHOE LACES.THE RED,WHITE,AND YELLOW ENDS WILL REALLY SET-OFF THOSE BLACK WING TIPS.MAKE OFFER.

Keith

[discorules]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob_S:

For the perusal of anyone interested:

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002599.html

scroll down to the post by "eyespy."

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Great Posts. Yours and eyespys. I believe he thoroughly summed up exactly how I, yourself and others feel.

[soundog]

I love this forum. The wealth of information is amazing! I use mostly RS Gold and AR cables both of which are well made and inexpensive. The bi-wire data seems to support their use. My Monster bi-wire harness has neat screw on connector options. The braided ends fit neatly into the tiny barrier strips of Al Ks excellent bi-wirable ALK crossover (no stray wire strands to cause havoc). The screw on banana plugs on the neatly and solidly connected and wrapped ends of the amp side of the cable harness make connection and disconnection easy. I could have made my own with RS or parts express cable for half the cost but that would cost more in my time than would justify the savings and the result would not be as neat a package as the Monster sets. Now does this all mean that these cool bi-wire sets really sound the same as just a single set of wires and I just think they sound better because I like the ingenuity and orderliness they represent? Although I got the really cool looking and very well built Onix interconnects free with my DAC does that lead me to believe it sounds better than the RS cable it replaced? Would it sound the same if I substituted an old coat hanger as one experimenter did? Maybe. When I worked in the liquor industry many years ago I was amazed that people couldnt tell their favorite premium brand from lower priced (sometimes affectionately referred to as rotgut) brands? And in fact, some of the low priced brands are actually the same as the high priced brands except for the packaging ( no wonder bar owners refill expensive bottles with inexpensive stuff! ). Is it all romancing (as the industry would put it) or BS (as the consumer might put it)? Certainly it would be reasonable to assume that one should be very cautious about spending a heck of a lot on wire. Certainly AB blind tests would be in order before spending too much on cables. However, whatever, I still prefer my good looking cables be they Monster, AR, or RS Gold to the ones that come in the box, or are homemade or are made out of surplus hangers from my closet (if anyone wants to go this route, I throw away tons of wire hangers!).

[Colin]

of course, I have to weigh in ...

Speaker and interconnect cables make a very big difference, especially when compared to their cost. It may not be a lot of bang for the buck, but where else can you make an improvement in your system for as little as 50 bucks?

Don't believe me? Try it for yourself.

Nothing exposes the subjective opinions of equipment reviews better than the cable debates. Here there is no clear and simple electronic ballot everything is a Florida butterfly ballot - a hanging chad or dimpled punch with little or no meaning.

Some notable and reputable people have said that there is no difference between cables. Only a matter of color. Stereophile calls this coloration a different difference. While this money is no objective magazine does love all the esoteric top-of-the-line equipment, the same way a wine connoisseur thrills to a $1,000 bottle, they also recommended the Radio Shack speaker cables from the wrong side of the tracks. Go figure.

Since super-efficient speakers (95 dB/w/m or more) are so much more revealing than average speakers, they will expose all of the nuances of the upstream components. I would pay particular attention to the efficiency of the reviewers speakers when reading a cable review. The efficiency of the speakers will color the opinion of the reviewer. So get at least two pairs of cables to compare side by side, then play a wide variety of CDs and test tones, and decide for yourself.

I recently compared a set of low cost Radio Shack interconnects with gold ends to the top of the line, $300 a set, Monster M950s. Their site is:

http://www.monstercable.com/mseries/mseries_product1.html#M950.

Alternating between each set from the tube pre-amp to 2A3 tube mono blocks, quickly eliminated the 2-meter Radio Shack pair. Their casual connection was poor.

But, so was the superior sonic performance of the Monster M950is. They squelched dangerously loud when the power turned on. I do not know why. I only know that removing them solved the annoying problem. I did not try them on the subs.

The low cost entry-level Monster cables I already had sounded best with the tube amps. In fact, the older cable sounded better with my subs than the newer Monster interconnects. They made a different difference that I liked. I put the newer cables on the pre-amp to amp connection.

By the way, after reading some of the insane postings on the Klipsch site, I did double-wire (not bi-wire yet) my big old horns with a second run of inexpensive Monster cables. This was a big improvement for the low cost of the investment. (Where else can I get a fifty dollar "improvement" to the sound?) It made more than a different difference. Therefore, I kept the cables.

My feeling is that with copper speaker cables, the thicker the better, especially with defining the bass notes. Ergo, with silver cable, the thinner the better, especially with mid-range and treble notes.

Other less expensive, minor upgrades, like the tweaks recommended here, can make just as much of a different difference as superlative cables.

Another comparison: at low speeds, on neighborhood streets, I found very little difference between a zippy Honda CRX ($2,500), a souped up Fiero ($9K) and the ultimate roller skate, the Ferrari 308 GTB (handles great, rides like it has no shocks). There was a "different difference".

Though in my book, the CRX is the bargain. The Ferrari is the slightly better luxury version that none of us can afford, not if practical matters have any weight. Don't forget, when it comes to cables and streets, we are all just pedestrians: we are only crossing the street, not driving professionally. The car we need to get the job done is the most practical one, not the fancy Italian model.

Think there is a "different difference" between pocket rockets and cables? Try them for yourself.

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Cornwalls, Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours, Dynaco II, Rotel, KSW200 & LF10

[T2K]

What really amazes me is that people are able to determine whether or not the claim of better sound is true or not by simply reading text,rather than actually

trying them themselves.I suspect these same people buy speakers without auditioning them, although they probably have read the specs.

Keith

[Klipschguy]

You know it's funny that cable tweaks get so much attention here. There are other areas which can have a greater impact on the overall quality of the sound system. The biggest, of course, being the speakers themselves. However, there is another which is OFTEN overlooked.

One area that makes a HUGE difference is the listening room itself. The listening room can sometimes make as much difference as the speakers themselves. Good speakers in an acoustically excellent room will likely sound better than great speakers in an acoustically bad room. Buying a $5000 power cord for your amp when your K-horns are sitting in the corners of a 12 x 12 room is ludicrous. If you want to really hear your speakers shine get them properly set up in a big room that is not overly plagued with standing wave problems.

There are are many tweaks that can be done to existing rooms. I think a civilized thread about room tweaks might be helpful.

Also PLEASE spare me the comments such as: "Yeah, you're right. I set up a pair of Bose 201's I bought at a garage sale for $.10, put them in a big, acoustically well designed room, and they sounded better than my friends Klipschorns." I fully realize, as with any component in a sound system, there are limitations.

Just my $.02, please don't get your feathers ruffled.

Warm regards,

KG

[Dick]

I still say give me some #14 zip cord and let me at 'em. All the rest is overkill.

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Richard Hemmings

[Randy Bey]

To answer the original question:

No, Monster Cable is not worth it.

No, eBay is NOT a good place to find bargains.

Yes, better cable makes a difference (albeit slight).

If you want to transcend the bullshit, go DIY with your cable needs. Get the best topologies and materials, add your own sweat, and enjoy the rewards.

[discorules]

quote:

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Originally posted by talktoKeith:

What really amazes me is that people are able to determine whether or not the claim of better sound is true or not by simply reading text,rather than actually

trying them themselves.I suspect these same people buy speakers without auditioning them, although they probably have read the specs.

Keith

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I listened to the fancy cables. This time, a fool and his money wasn't easily parted. They didn't offer any improvement over my 12 gauge Home Depot zip cords. Well, the fancy stuff was perty though.

[Jim Cornell]

Guess ill get in here too!!

The gold tight patch cords, ive never been able to tell the difference in the sound!!

Of coarse with 4 cornwalls here, i prabably wouldnt tell theres a difference!!

The only thing that pissed me off, with the expensive patch cords, was, when i swapped the CD players out once,

The cord was so tight on the unit, when it let go, i put my hand thru the wall!!!

THAT WAS FUN

Well, thats the only difference ive seen!!

Regards Jim

[T2K]

No feathers to ruffle here KG.I guess my comments here were pretty stupid.It's just that,at the time,they seemed to parallel some of the other comments here. Still do.I'll try to exercise a little more restraint in the future.

As far as drewzter's original question goes,to me,Monster's products are not worth the money.There are

better like products available for less money.

Keith

[Klipschguy]

Roll Tide.

KG

[Ray Garrison]

Randy, why don't you think EBay is a good place for bargins? I got my La Scalas on EBay - 1974 vintage, excellent shape, $700, love 'em! Also got Thorens TD 320, TEAC AS100, various other audio bits and pieces, various Thomas the Tank Engine accessories for my 2 year old, some *NSYNC stuff for the 16 year old daughter, and have always found purchases to be very good value for the money. Just be careful, make sure you talk to the seller before you buy, and be certain you understand what it is that they're selling.

As to wire, my experience is that EVERYTHING makes a difference. Change the CD player, system sounds different. Change the amp, system sounds different. Change the speaker cables (aka wire), system sounds different. Change the interconnects (aka patch cords), system sound different. The signal does not travel "from" one component "to" the next in a simple linear progression, but rather exists WITHIN *ALL* of the components simultaneously (or at least close enough to simultaneously for all practical purposes.) The interactions of these componenets is very complex - everything from the power supply in the CD player through to the voice coil on the woofer are part of one holistic signal processing circuit whose function is to convert an archival copy of sound waves, either digially encoded as pits and lands on a CD or DVD, or recorded as some sort of analog image on an LP or tape, into as close a recreation as possible of those original sound waves. My experience is that any alteration of any part of this synergistic assemblage changes it's action, to a greater or lesser degree. Whether that change is for the better or worse, or simply different, is sometimes very, very hard to figure out.

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Music is art

Audio is engineering