dubai2000 Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 Al, sounds rather similar to my upcoming listening room. But where does one get ONE La Belle or Cornwall (which one anyway?) from and which amp does one add to an Mc 2105? Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 Wolfram, Finding a single speaker can be a problem! All I can say is watch this board and eBay! I got my new (used actually) Belle from "Horn Player" right here on the board. It was a 450 Mile round trip pickup. You will need a seperate amp to drive the center speaker. With an MC2105, you could connect it between the 4 Ohms taps of the left and right channels, invert the input to one channel of the amp and invert the speaker connected to that channel. Then connect an "L Pad" into the cable to the center speaker. I did this at first with my Mc250. Of course, inverting the input is not easy unless your preamp has a switch on it for that. Your best bet by far is a mono amp and the resistor network of the Dope from Hope paper. Al K. This message has been edited by Al Klappenberger on 08-06-2001 at 06:20 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted August 5, 2001 Share Posted August 5, 2001 Al, thanks for the advice. Has anybody ever said the road to one's audio heaven is a straight path? But patience is virtue... Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted August 6, 2001 Share Posted August 6, 2001 Klewless, I had the same lousy imaging (none actually, just a blob of sound.) when I first set my cornerhorns up in their present room. The room is in our basement and is 8.67' x 16' x 18.5'. Walls are all sheetrock, with thin wall to wall carpeting on the floor, with no pad. The sound was hard, with glaring mids and no imaging. This was before I even had any furniture in there. But after I got three big CD shelf units in there, a futon, LP storage, equipment cabinet and a 6 x 9 shag rug in front of the futon, things sounded much better, but still the imaging was vague, and there was too much room reverb. The cure came in the form of eighteen RPG ProFoam acoustic foam panels (22" x 22" each). I currently have them deployed in six locations, three panels each (triple layers). I've got sets flanking the mid/tweeter horns, close to the speakers, and then two sets mid front wall. This really snaps imaging into place and tones down the excess reverb. I am really pleased with the sound now. I tried placements in the middle of the side walls, but that seemed to deaden the sound too much, at least for my taste. Two sets on the back wall, right behind the futon did improve clarity, but I ended up putting a CD storage unit there. At least that diffuses the reflected sound somewhat. Downside: WAF may not be real high with this kind of room treatment. But mine is a dedicated basement music room -- she can't really say too much. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted August 8, 2001 Author Share Posted August 8, 2001 James, Thanks for the ideas. I will certainly give it a trial. I have had many different speakers in that room and all had the same problem (including Magneplanars). Either I get a good image with NO bass or get a weird image with troubles in the center. The Khorns I a made are having the least amount of trouble with this room. But even with them the center (which with the Khorns now actually exist!) is very sensitive to where I sit. I move myself around in the room trying to locate a good listing spot. Even with all the troubles, the Khorns sound marvelous. I did finally set up my Rel subwoofer which helps tremendously with the bass. But that's another issue. Future plans for that room (the only one I have available which must unfortunately be the TV room as well) is to remove the carpet and use nice rugs instead. My house is older and has hardwood floors under the carpet. Another part of the problem is the amount of glass in the room. But one does like to look out his windows. As an aside, I have a stereo TV with it's little speakers only 18" apart right in the center of the short wall. Now that stations have started doing stereo, I am amazed at how it manages to image. Sound at times appears to be coming from the Khorns three feet away. Their ideas of stereo are not always correct since I sometimes hear stuff coming from behind me --- and I don't have any rear speakers! May have to put that thing into mono. Enough rambling. Thanks again for your help. I still may come up with a center channel, derived or not. ------------------ John P St Paul, MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 As far as I know people use either the Belle or Cornwall as a center speaker. Am I right in assuming that a single La Scala would also do the job? Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 This board is reall nice: they call you 'cool newbie' even if you post silly replies. Of course a La Scala will work, after all the Belle is the same as La Scala only with a more living room friendly outfit. How stupid to read my previous post. I really feel ashamed but I presume it was turning up the volume a bit higher today which really made me scared: no, not about the speakers or even my ears, but boy, an orchestra suddenly playing full blast in one's living room can scare you a bit. But thats Klipsch-and until now I've never heard anything like this before - even without a center speaker! Wolfram - and thanks all for your patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted August 8, 2001 Share Posted August 8, 2001 And the cool part, dubai, is you can go back and edit your previous posts to remove any embarassing comments, which I have done on many occassions! Kind of like rewriting history, a la George Orwell 1984!! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted August 9, 2001 Share Posted August 9, 2001 Thanks Doug, hopefully I won't turn deaf soon as I already seem to be blind! BTW: I really like the comparision with Orwell Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted August 11, 2001 Share Posted August 11, 2001 I have a Three channel setting on my receiver{Kenwood}.La Scala Left and right,RC3 Center. Should I use the same levels For three channel that I use for 5.1 Or is three channel different? Is the center to be as loud as flanks or is it just supposed to fill in the hole? It seems the center is always to loud. With tweeking have gotten good results but while tweeking I miss the beauty of the music. Is there a Standard? Please reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted August 13, 2001 Share Posted August 13, 2001 Maybe the Kenwood outputs a lower level signal to the center in three-channel mode anyway. I'd say there is no right way. Just whatever sounds best to you. Personally though, I would tend to think that when playing two-channel material through three speakers, particularly if the left and right speakers are not that far apart, that most music would sound better with the center turned down a bit. Otherwise, L and R separation might suffer. At least that was my conclusion after playing around with an Adcom surround processor driving a trio of Mirage speakers via an Adcom five-channel amp. Of course, those were dipole radiators, which to me have less pinpoint separation anyway. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted August 14, 2001 Share Posted August 14, 2001 James, Is the center speaker mono? Is any information extracted from the flanking speakers? Do I lose any of the musical content by attenuating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted August 16, 2001 Share Posted August 16, 2001 LP, Every receiver or processor I've seen that has a non DSP-processed mode for playing two-channel material back over five (or three or seven) channels outputs a mono (summed L&R) signal to the center speaker. You won't lose anything by attenuating the center. Everything it produces is also either in the left or right chanel, or is in both. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I'm seriously considering utilizing a Heresy between my Cornwalls in a derived third channel configuration using a resister box and a separate mono amp. My question is will the 1/2 watt resistors work if I'm going to use the SPEAKER outputs on the receiver? I looked at Gil's post with the Dope From Hope schematic showing speaker leads being used, going thru some 1/2 resistors to make a line level output, then going to a mono amp, then to the third speaker. I don't want to waste my time building one of these things if it "can't take the heat." Thanks, KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Gil's "Dope from Hope" shows a device to be used between a stereo preamp and 3 power amps at "line" level. A speaker level device would be much more robust. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 The drawings depict two different designs. One for a preamp out, the other showing "high level" or speaker outputs (I'm interested in the second one). Make any sense of it? Is it a misprint? KG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Well, I was searching the archives to see if I could locate the schematic for PWK's minibox to derive a center channel. Gil, or anyone else, still have the schematic? Gil had it posted, but it has dropped off the system. Also in case anyone might have some pics of their work, I'd sure like to see those, too. I have looked at this schematic once before, and had a question the same as the poster just before this post. It appears that there are notes indicating that the design could be used for line level OR speaker level derived center. Anyone have a thought on this? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 O.K. Found the schematic that Artto had posted. Anyone have any pics? Also, I've got this Dynaco QD2, which is able to derive a center from speaker level outs which does not require a third amp. Anyone have an idea on how this could be done from scratch. I've looked in the QD2, and it actually works o.k., but there are some times it's center is too attenuated to be satisfactory. Klipsch2ph311.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 nevermind deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 ---------------- On 8/5/2001 12:27:00 AM Stu Pidass wrote: OK this has tweeked my interest. Stupid question but, exactly how does one hook up the centre speaker? I mean there are no "Centre" binding posts. On another related topic, I remember way back in the early eighties reading an article on hooking up four speakers to in a "daisy chain" type of style. My memory is foggy about this but I seem to recall that article talking about some kind of "hidden" track that can be heard this way. Anyway, the trick was to have your left & right mains connected as normal. The other two speakers would be facing the listener from the sides just like surrounds do in a HT setup. Now here's were it got interesting. You hooked a speaker wire from the positive of the left main to the positive of the left surround and from the positive of the rt main to the positive of the right suround. With me so far? Now the odd thing (at least it seemed odd to me) was the negatives of the rt & lt surrounds were connected together. I remember needing to adjust the distance of the surrounds from my ears until all speakers were equal. When it was adjusted the sound was absolutely remarkable. That was my first "surround" experience.There was a term for this phenominum but I can't recall what it was called. Anyone know anything about it? ---------------- It sounds like you are thinking of the David Hafler setup. The two extra side or rear speakers essentally reproduce the 'out of phase' information that is imbeded in all stereo recordings to a greater or lessor degree. Edwin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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