Check out these 1980s spec sheets

[heresy2guy]

I spent hours upon hours browsing and studying these spech sheets back in the late 80s. They were lost a long time ago, but I found a copy of these on the internet and thought I'd share them with you since they make for a good read.

[heresy2guy]

What I got a kick out of was the frequency response charts.

Heresy II - not much bass, very pronounced midrange and highs.

Forte - awesome low end! man does that speaker go LOW.

Cornwall II - very flat frequency response, perhaps best of this group.

La Scala - really good mid-bass. strong midrange.

Klipschorn - wow - check out the bottom end! I couldn't imagine anyone having the need for a subwoofer with Khorns. Check out the mids and highs too - great performance across the board. Totally trumps all the other speakers. La Scalas are similiar in mids and highs, but can't touch Khorns for deep, low bass.

I was most surprised at the La Scala bass response, especially around 40hz. And from 70hz up it clearly blows the Cornwall II out of the water. I can't understand why people trash it's low end.

Is this a surprise to anybody, because it sure is to me.

[sunnysal]

thnaks for posting those, I had no idea the forte had such nice measurements! regards, tony

[Cleve]

I love those frequency graphs for each speaker. Notice that such detailed performance metrics aren't provided for today's non-Heritage speakers, but rather lots of purty pictures instead?

Sometimes, what ISN'T shown is as revealing as what is. Or maybe the camera shops and Best Buys just wants 'hi-tech looking' stuff?

[heresy2guy]

I agree. It's a real shame Klipsch doesn't give out the frequency response graphs any more. I think they're an important method of comparing speakers, second only to your own ear. In fact, those graphs are very important to those people today wanting to purchase heritage Klipsch that are no longer in production. Since it can be extremely hard to do an A vs. B in-person comparison (say, a Forte vs. a Cornwall II), resorting to those graphs can help a prospective buyer understand the exact acoustical differences between the speakers. I think they're very informative and make a valuable aid to those wishing to buy older Klipsch heritage speakers that simply can't be auditioned and compared.

I know Klipsch had these spec sheets for the Forte II, Chorus, Chorus II, and Quartet models too. Unfortunately, I don't have acess to them nor can I find them online.

Perhaps somebody at Klipsch could dig them up and make them available to us here on the forum?

It could help a lot of people out who are looking to buy older Klipsch speakers. Many people ask questions like "What's the difference between the Chorus II and the Cornwall II?" What they get generally is a subjective opinion which will vary greatly from person to person, amp to amp, and ear to ear. I think the question could be answered better by comparing the original Klipsch spec sheets and their accompanying frequency response graphs. They literally illustrate the acoustical differences between the speakers.

Trey Cannon, if you're reading this, do you think you could help us out with those spec sheets for those models?

Thanks - Heresy2guy.

[psg]

Many thanks for posting these! Excellent!

The La Scala graph reinforces my choice of sending everything below 80Hz to the sub as well as the mains, although even 90 Hz would be okay. I'm surprised at the amount of variation on the La scala graph. Those wiggles don't really fit within +/- 3 dB. All the other speaker responses are much more flat. I think the La Scala sounds better than that graph shows.

The Forte is sweet! I never really knew about it. Kind of like the long lost relative.

[edwinr]

VERY informative post. Thankyou.

[Deang]

Ya learn something every day -- I actually didn't know the orginal Forte used a passive radiator.

[NOSValves]

What looks strange to me is doesn't the Lascala go lower then the Cornwall in those graphs ?

[heresy2guy]

The graph for the La Scala indicates the data was gathered at a range of one meter; the graph for the Cornwall II says it was gathered at a range of three meters. This might skew a direct graph-to-graph comparison between the La Scala and the Cornwall II.

But they are all official Klipsch figures, nonetheless.

[Coytee]

**I was most surprised at the La Scala bass response, especially around 40hz. And from 70hz up it clearly blows the Cornwall II out of the water. I can't understand why people trash it's low end**

I trash the low end (and I've owned a pair of Lascalas since roughly 1980, so I'm not trashing them in a 'negative' kinda way )

None the less, my "other" set of speakers are some 1978 Electro Voice Interface D speakers that (as told me by a tech guy at EV) "their -3 db point is 28hz @ 106 db"

Although I'm not technicaly bright enough to simply comprehend what that meant without him trying to educate me... what I know in the REAL world is, my EV's will simply shake the WALLS (literally) when it comes time for a freight train to pass by, whereas, my Lascalas will "only" punch you in the chest.

My experience has led me to conclude that Klipsch in general, is fantastic for an overall sound (I'm planning on getting some K-horns, so I'm not bashing klipsch at all), but they don't do DEEP bass very well at all. Because of that, I'm very shied away from considering looking at a Klipsch sub. After all, when I've (in the past) read the spec sheets on a Klipsch sub, it seems that my 1978 EV's either equal it, or simply blow it out of the water, which is why I (though with love) trash Klipsch low end

Now... bet you're sorry you asked lol

[heresy2guy]

I'm not sorry at all - input's a good thing, and I welcome it since it enables me to compare and contrast ideas. It allows me to either walk away with a new position on a topic or to solidify a position I already hold. Like somebody else said, you learn a bit each day and the only way this happens to erect your antennas and take in as much info as you can.

I'm afraid I don't know much about the EV system you spoke of. I did some quick searches but came up with nothing so I guess I really can't comment on your equipment because I can't compare a LS or KH to something I know nothing about.

What I can say is that I like my bass to be tight and firm and accurate when I'm listening to music. I think Klipsch excels at this kind of bass, especially in their sealed or their horn-loaded designs, and I personally find it to be the best type of bass for my 2 channel listening.

For home theater useage or for listening to today's techno-rap music, boomy, over-pronounced, bass tends to be the thing people want. I can't say I really blame them because a T-Rex's bellow or, as you said, a freight train's roar, SHOULD shake the house and that's best accomplished I guess with high-efficiency ported enclosures and big woofers. It leads to a kind of sloppy, boomy bass you can certainly feel and it does make sense for those applications. I just don't like that kind of bass in my music. Maybe I would if I was jamming to some techno stuff, which is intentionally made with that kind of sloppy, boomy, bass sound in mind, but since I don't care for it, I'm not missing it.

I listen to almost everything from classical music to soft rock to hard rock to metal to 70s-80s-90s top 40 to oldies from the 50s and 60s. Personally speaking, I don't feel any of that requires boomy, exaggerated bass but rather tight, strong, lightening-fast bass. Boomy, exaggerated bass would totally ruin my listening experience. That's just my opinion of course.

Would I feel cheated out of bass if I had La Scalas being driven by my HK430 (which has a very strong bottom-end by the way) considering the music I listen to and my personal tastes? No.

Could I find out that I'd rather have a pair of Khorns with my HK430 due to their lower bass response? Yeah, sure. That's almost a certainty.

Would I ever feel the need for a sub with 18" woofers and ports big enough to swallow a soccer ball? No. Not for my two channel setup. But I would take it for my home theater!

[IB Slammin]

..... I can't understand why people trash it's low end.

Is this a surprise to anybody, because it sure is to me........

It is hard to explain. If one AB's a CW and a LaS, the un-attenuated mids & highs of LaS dominate the room. In one on one listening, the LaS bottom seems clean but not as deep.

IMHO, when one changes and improves the mid horn (and/or driver) in the CW, Cornwall walks away from LaScala.

Again, this is MHO, my ear, in my room with my stuff. But, BEC has indicated as much with limited testing of CW bass-bin and better horns. I guess he would be familiar with LaScala sound as he owns six of them.

Don't burn me too bad boys.

TC

[IB Slammin]

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On 10/29/2004 11:35:39 PM NOSValves wrote:

What looks strange to me is doesn't the Lascala go lower then the Cornwall in those graphs ?

----------------

Craig, we know better than that!

Terry

[IB Slammin]

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On 10/29/2004 11:35:39 PM NOSValves wrote:

What looks strange to me is doesn't the Lascala go lower then the Cornwall in those graphs ?

----------------

PS: To quote PWK....." There are little white lies, there bold-face lies, and there manufactures specifications"

TC

[heresy2guy]

Hmmm...does that mean someone should have flashed PWK a "bullsh_t!" pin when he was handing out those La Scala spec sheets???

[mikebse2a3]

here is a graph I made years ago with the lascala(red) imposed on the khorn(black) graph. these where from different brochures than ones previously posted. notice both are referenced to 0db but are the same otherwise to the previous post.

notice how the lascala shelves down quicker than the khorn starting at 60hz. doesn't look much different to the eyes but as anyone who has heard lascala versus khorn their is a definite decrease in lower bass to our ears. it just shows how these kinds of graphs can't tell us everything about how something is going to sound to us.

if you look at a graph of the equal loudness contours my understanding of the way we percieve sound levels is say at 1khz a 10db increase in spl will sound approx. twice as loud to us where as at say 30hz about 5db increase will sound twice as loud to us.

to me the lascala sounds great but because of the shelving effect its perceived as less bass than a more flat responce across the freq. spectrum.

mike

[mikebse2a3]

here is a copy of the equal loudness curves.

mike

[mikebse2a3]

here is another khorn brochure I believe made in late 1989

notice how this freq. graph is even smoother than the other ones.

I believe the meaurement resolution was lower which causes a smoother looking responce. believe it or not but klipsch actually published higher resolution graphs than most speaker manufactures I've seen.

bottom line don't take these types of graphs to seriously because they are very limited in what they can tell us. graphs only hint at what a speaker might sound like because once you put it in a room the responce is so altered by the room. thats why the room its installed in is so important because most rooms drastically alter the responce that you see in these measurements. You are for better or worse always listening to the speaker/room system and not just what you see in these graphs.

mike

[mikebse2a3]

For those interested here is I believe a late 1989 brochure matching the previous khorn brochure showing what looks to be a lower resolution measurement which looks alot smoother than previous graphs.

Please don't look at this wrong, even if it is a lower resolution. To me klipsch is like all manufacturers who have to choose how best to present their products considering that the average consumer isn't going to know exactly how to read these graphs other than to think one looking more flat and smoother is better when in reality most the competition isn't giving you the resolution that klipsch has been.

I believe klipsch has been one of the most honest and least bullsh*t manufacture of speakers out there from all the dealings I ever had with them.

mike

PS: I might have some of the other brochures asked for earlier if someone still wants them posted but I need to go to bed now(man sometimes I get really caught up in this great forum thanks klipsch) so I'll check in tomorrow.