e-bay scam

[coda]

Tim, if the 'seller' e-mailed you using the Contact Member button from your feedback page, you may be able to look up the eBay member name using the e-mail address sent, and follow up further with eBay.

Bothers me a bit that anyone out there can phish another eBay member thru their facility, here's the top text header eBay includes with each sent message.

If this email is an offer to directly sell you an item without bidding on and winning the item on eBay, please report it to us immediately and do not respond. An offer to sell an item directly to another eBay member through email violates eBay rules. It is also extremely unsafe to purchase an item through this email system regardless of the seller's claims or feedback, as you lose the benefit of eBay's purchase protection programs and risk losing your money.

Never pay for your eBay item through instant cash transfer services such as Western Union or MoneyGram. Such services offer Internet shoppers no protection against fraud.

[maxg]

Oh hell Timm,

I am really sorry this happened to you. Would have caught me too - some of these scams are too clever by half - it quite puts me off using ebay altogether and certainly for high value items.

Makes you realise why so many people will only sell to the US, or the UK for ebay.co.uk - it is a bugger for me though - as I am always an overseas bidder.

I hope to God you get this sorted out and your money back, otherwise it was a rather expensive lesson.

[Cal Blacksmith]

The most expensive thing I have ever bought off of E-Bay was my power amp. $1200 from a man in Michigan. I talked to him on the telephone for nearly an hour before I made the deal. That is no gaurantee either, but it all worked out.

I am so sorry you got taken by this guy, I avoid ANYONE who even lists Western Union, NO paypal or cashiers checks only, like the plague. Most people are honest but there are the few bottom sucking scumm that spoil it for all the rest. I hope that the #%$^#$ that got you looses his manhood in a really bad accident. Not enough really but it would be a start.

[Frzninvt]

I think that PayPal is safer then sending a MO to someone, at least you have a chance to get your money back. A MO is like cash, and the USPS won't do squat for you until 30 days has passed. The only time I got ripped off on eBay was when I sent a MO to a guy. Thank goodness it was not a really big sum, I reported it to the authorities and eBay after sending in all the documentation sent me a check to cover about 3/4's of what I lost.

I feel for you Timmi, it is a sucky feeling when you get ripped off. I get nervous when I don't hear back from sellers within a day or two.

[NOSValves]

This really sucks Tim !! I really feel for you.

As far as absolute safety for internet purchases. An absolute safe way does not exist. Postal Money Order and Paypal would be the closest thing. I've used Paypal for 4 years and thousands of transactions now without a single incedent. I was ripped off years ago using a Postal Money Order.

The paypal sucks site is stupid. A good portion of the complainers are low life sellers that got the accounts locked because they had so many complaints. There are always going to be complainers when a company serves millions of people. To many people think paypal should bend over backwards and get in the middle of transaction problems that have nothing to do with them. Would the post office arbitrate a eBay deal for a item that was not as advertised ? The only time the USPS will get involves is when it is out and out fraud. Paypal gets stuck being involved in all kinds a petty disagreements. Paypal is much safer then western union and in some respects safer then the USPS they have the person your payings actual verified address and checking account number (at least if the member is verified which should always be confirmed).

Craig

[yaffstone]

I used the FBI internet fraud web page this morning. Hope they catch the guy but London is a long way off with a slightly accented second burocracy in-between.

[dodger]

----------------

On 12/7/2004 10:01:43 AM mdeneen wrote:

Actually, what is the difference between say, a Money Order and a Western Union? Both can easily be converted to cash, right? If the doer has eyes on ripping you off, I assume he/she could cash either one and abscond with your dough?

No one uses escrow for expensive items?

mdeneen

----------------

Hi Mark:

There are Bank Money Orders, US Postal Service Money Orders and Western Union.

By law, using a USPS Money Order provides a few things:

You report the missing MO or fraud in this case in your jurisdiction and to the Postal Inspectors.

Since the US mail is used as payment, they have a copy of the receipt - it should be filled out, but they don't always have you do that. But they also have a cash receipt for the Money Order itself and it should list the zip of delivery.

Since you report the loss/fraud to the PO, you also have to report it to the Law Enforcement Agency in your area. If you are playing a scam as a buyer for instance, you can be charged with "Filing a False Report." You can be arrested for that. You will be investigated, if the Agency is doing its job, and be charged by your State for Fraud, also if it is a situation as this, Internet Fraud. Internet Fraud CAN under the right circumstances, be both a Federal and a State Charge separately.

By mailing the USPS Money Order, you incur Federal Charges, fraudulent use of mail, and after investigation, if you have done this on a regular basis, you can be hit with racketeering charges - both State (depending on your State's Penal Code) and Federal charges. As most likely the Money Orders cross State Lines, the FBI becomes involved, as well as the FBI Internet fraud Unit.

It can also set off an Income Tax investigation to be sure if all income has been reported. If you're scamming, you probably don't so there can be Filing False Documents, tax Evasion AND under-reporting income charges. You would owe taxes, fees and penalties plus interest on the amount due to the IRS. That information is usually given to your State, or comes out in Trial and your state audits you. Same Charges can be set forth. USPS Money Orders are pretty much treated as Government documents.

A bank Money Order will trigger mail fraud but not the rest as it would if the State Banking Regulatory Commission be a private insurer. They all would have to file.

Western Union provides no Recourse, no insurance- Cheeta Your Sister could be the recipient and as a number of check cashing places also sell Money Orders, if you correctly answer the question, or give the right code number, for all intents and purposes you are the intended receiver and for a fee, the place will cash the Money Order. They may ask for ID, but if you are scamming people, you will most likely have false identification.

Thus a USPS Money Order is best for both parties as there also is a waiting time to stop payment per se.

It is best noted any auction number, description of item purchased, full address and telephone number if you can get that, on the Money Order itself and on the receipt that you keep. Confirmation of mail at least, or Certified, Return Receipt Requested is best when mailing payment.

dodger

[Gilbert]

Here's a copy of an email I received from my scammer. I'm playing him at the moment, trying to get all the information I can get from him.

Here's his reply, followed by some of my previous emails to him, trying to get him to talk:

Dear sir,

My address where you must send the money is:

Daniel Addison

7 circkle

Wood Broad Way

London NW2 3ZX

United Kingdom

You can go at any office which use Western Union Money Transfer and all you need to send the money is my address,your ID and the cash.

Please after you send the payment don't forget to email me the transfer number,full name and address of the sender.

Thank you

Gilbert Leyendecker <gilbertl@wallacesc.com> wrote:

I'm not sure I understood your previous email (see below). I need to know how to send the money, if you prefer Western Union, I'll need an account number or some sort of information from you. I'm okay with using Western Union, and not going through ebay, but I need additional infromation that you have not provided.

z zz on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 at 8:49 AM -0600

wrote:>Sir we will use the Western Union and will end the deal via eBay because I have A cont at eBay 20.000$ .

Gilbert Leyendecker wrote:

Please send me your contact information. I need to know where to send the money, and what form of payment you accept. Perferably Paypal. I will not spend anymore than initially bid. Also, I do not give out any of my personal account information to strangers. Sorry, but that's what I've been informed to do by ebay, in cases when someone asks for my personal

ID. z zz on Tuesday, December 07, 2004 at 4:04 AM -0600

wrote: Hello , This deal will be finished trough eBay. You have the opportunity to purchase this item(same item)at your bid price.

If you're ready for this purchase, I need to know your eBay user ID, full name and address. As soon as I have this informations I'll start the official procedure, and eBay will notify you about this. You'll also receive important guidelines + instructions from them (please go through them exactly).

I'll handle the shipping, so this will be free of charge for you.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards!

Gilbert Leyendecker wrote:

I receive your email regarding a 2nd. Chance offer, and yes I am interested. Please explain to me the procedure for such a purchase.

The seller of the MC240 is from Arizona. This scumbag actually thinks he has me going, and called me here at my office from another country. I thanked him for the information, and told him the money would soon be on it's way. heh. heh. heh. Oh, he has a heavy Arabic accent, not English or British, as the address might suggest.

Information will be going to the authorities later this afternoon. I will include Timmikids info as well. Watch out guys, these scumbags are everywhere.

[colterphoto1]

Get em Gilbert!

[yaffstone]

Ok guys and gals, here's the response I got from the FBI internet fraud complaint center. Looks to me like we need some good old fashioned vigil-antes to go to the Western Union drop points and help these scum to realize the error of their ways...

Thank you for filing a complaint with IFCC.

If you have comments or problems related to this Web site, please send us an e-mail via http://www.ifccfbi.gov/contactus.asp

*** Please do not contact the IFCC to ascertain the status of your complaint. We cannot respond to these inquires. ***

The IFCC receives thousands of complaints monthly and does not have the resources to respond to these inquiries. It is the IFCC's intention to review all complaints and refer them to law enforcement and regulatory agencies having jurisdiction. Investigation and prosecution are at the discretion of the receiving agencies.

Additional information related to your complaint.

If at any time you wish to report additional information related to your complaint, please go to https://www.ifccfbi.gov/update

Evidence related to your complaint.

It is important that you keep any evidence you may have related to your complaint. Evidence may include canceled checks; credit card receipts; phone bills; faxes; pamphlets or brochures; mailing envelopes; certified or other mail receipts; a printed copy of a Web site, chat room, or newsgroup text; or similar items. Keep items in a safe location until you are requested to provide them for investigative or prosecutive evidence. If requested to provide evidence, send copies only, not originals.

[Parrot]

Yep, it's not like TV where they turn the whole department loose on solving one crime, complete with unlimited overtime and stakeouts.

[dodger]

It is unfortunate that things get done by Priority and number of Personnel.

In the City I live, we are down at least 50 Officers. The factors are Retirement and the Personnel called up for duty in Iraq. That would be 50 out of about 640. Another 20 or so have been called up.

Our FBI SAC (supervising agent in charge) works the Rochester and Buffalo offices.

But things get done slowly. We now have 311 along with enhanced 911. 311 is staffed by Officers on light duty. If you are being harassed and the person is not on scene, 311. Fender Bender under $600.00, 311 It's ridiculous.

But Tim have you heard anything?

I'm surprised that he has not posted. Let us know how things are going. I sent an email to AOL Security about the email address being used. Heard nothing there.

Here we have a chance to show someone from another Country some of the positives and it all falls through the cracks.

dodger

[Timmikid]

Hi all there, let me say that I am impressed by all that you are doing for me. I've been to the local police, I'll send you the details soon. I hope you understand that with all the other things happening in life I'm a little short of strenghth to be here all the way. Somehow this month is not my best! ( I will not bother you with the details, but I'm serious that this is an understatement, even though I lost a lot, family health matters are still more important, even though it was timed wrong, but on the other hand it always is)I will give more tomorrow. Thank you all, a tired Tim. Looking back on all this I know I was an idiot, blinded by love. Thank you all for understanding. I've heard others say that being part of this clan gave them strenght to pull through. Now I really feel what they ment. This is a great club altogether, even with the occasional wars. I'm proud and thankful to be here, more soon if circumstances allow. Tim.

[Gilbert]

I just received another 2nd chance offer for the same item, but this time its from the same scumbag that ripped off Timmikid, SLEEPLESS@AOL.COM.

He has an ebay account, his user name is (niha13). I just realized that you can identify their user name from the ebay link that these scammers are modifiying for the people that choose to reply through WHAT APPEARS TO BE EBAY. The link is associated with his user name.

I'm gonna phuck with him, and let him think he's got a pigeon. Anyone got any ideas how we can screw this scumbag.

[Parrot]

It seems like if someone could convince the proper authorities, this guy could be caught in the act.

[Klipschfoot]

Too bad we can't make a "housecall."

If it's any consolation, a business owner associate of a friend lost $5K on a computer second chance offer. So, you are not alone. There will be a way that these ethugs can be caught in the future. Unfortunately, it may come in return for state or federally taxed internet. You know, "protection money."

Thanks for posting your hardship, dreadful as it may be. Maybe others will take heed and share your story to avoid another's mistake.

It won't happen twice, though. Right?

[Champagne taste beer budget]

Tim, sorry to hear about your misfortune,but I'm glad you've had the balls to admit to the mistake in front of your friends here to enlighten us, and hopefully prevent it from happening to any of the other forum members. I have never bought or sold anything on ebay, though I have put in a couple bids.

In checking on the niha13 dude, all I can see is some positive feedback, two from cosmetic purchases he/she made, one for a worldwide phone, and one for a digital camera. Nothing that he/she has ever sold, just purchases. Odd. Maybe he/she listed and bought the items in order to creat a fake feedback trail?

I hope he/she, and anyone else playing these games, get their a$$ in as deep a sling as can be found.

[Klipschfoot]

Second post here.

EBAY SHOULD BAN THE SECOND CHANCE OFFER

No doubt eBay thought they were getting ripped off by unscrupulous sellers who were playing the game of a high reserve and lower under-the-radar second chance offers. That may have to change as eBay seems to be uncaring about the widespread deception that their model is allowing.

Tim, you should email eBay and let them know that the scammers took advantage of an opportunity in which eBay is passively complicit, if not partially accountable. The scammer(s) got your email through a hole in eBay's structure. You acted in good faith.

This is a real can of worms for eBay.

[garymd]

Can you say "CLASS ACTION SUIT?" The right attorney could put a real hurtin on ebay or at least its reputation. The bad press alone could be enough to get them off their *** and do something.

[Guest Anonymous]

Just as a suggestion I would Email the sellers that have sold items to this individual with different email address and see were the items were shipped ...Tony