jwc Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 D, I don't have the network yet but I assume you are referring to the fuse for the tweeter? Do mean bypasing this all together with a 12 gauge wire say from radio shack. Would I just disconnect the fuse and reroute from the screw "all the way back". Would this improve the quality of sound or because you know I will be blowing the fuse. thanks ahead of time jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 The fuse is a waste of time IMO. If you want to protect the tweeter, then protect the tweeter. However, in the case of the ALK, the fuse is in the signal path (like putting it on the speaker cable) for "protecting" ALL of the drivers at the same time. The fuse and pressure-fit fuse holder has a loss of signal associated with it. Try jumping it for yourself to find out how much. Use both wires of a 2" strand of speaker wire and jump it, you don't even have to solder it, just "set it in". I have actually (but accidentally) clipped the MC300 (300 watts) into my horns with no lasting effects and no fuse. You can go for being "safe" or upgrading the sound. That's the trade-off. The question I have is "safe from what?" - there is very little chance of the McIntosh gear failing so catastrophically that it takes out the speakers. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 JW, You have to remove the woofer to swap out the wiring. The woofer is held on by 4 wing nuts. Really not that hard. Tin wire and woofer tab heat both and done. Maybe I am over simplifying things but its not much more than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylanl Posted January 13, 2005 Author Share Posted January 13, 2005 DM, still what difference should I hear????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 JC, I have AL-3's in my LaScalas. My Klipschorns are another story. I changed out the whole top end and network. The problem with me is that I never know when to stop, and I like to play around. The ALK or AL-3 will sound better then the AL-2. I would probably go with the ALK if I was going to replace the network. I could also sell you a nice custom pair of AA's that you will like, but they are two part networks with the woofer inductor on a separate board. I didn't read all of the post yet, but I see D-Man did something to modify the Klipschorn basshorn. Too bad we can't all listen to everyones mods before trying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 ---------------- On 1/13/2005 4:41:48 PM Dylanl wrote: DM, still what difference should I hear????? ---------------- I heard a slight increase in overall volume, increased clarity, better "black space" in the soundstage, and in particular, better clarity in the mid-bass. It's just another veil being removed from the thing. But try it for yourself, it's completely non-invasive. If you don't notice a difference, then take it out. Takes 3 seconds. I was convinced of its efficacy that I soldered it in as a permanent mod. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Guys, Don't short out the woofer fuse! It adds something like 1/10 of an ohm to the woofer which measures about 4 Ohms anyhow. It contributes even less than the big 2.4 mHy inductor. That extra resistance (DCR) is totally insignificant. It could easily save you replacing the woofer drivers. Shorting it out is extremely foolish! I had one customer call me and thank me for the fuse when he blew both of them! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 D-man, Great posts. I will definately try this Dyli, I think I'm too chicken to mess aroung with removing the woofer. In the future, I want to either build some scalas on my own or refinish an old pair. I also may try the mod in which the woofer is in a larger volume cabinet and is ported. Q-man I may try some of your networks or someone else's networks in the future. I guess I first want to see how awesome my scalas are with new networks. Ifr they are as good as everyone says, I may eventually have a room with five of them. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 ---------------- On 1/13/2005 5:34:00 PM Al Klappenberger wrote: Guys, Don't short out the woofer fuse! It adds something like 1/10 of an ohm to the woofer which measures about 4 Ohms anyhow. It contributes even less than the big 2.4 mHy inductor. That extra resistance (DCR) is totally insignificant. It could easily save you replacing the woofer drivers. Shorting it out is extremely foolish! I had one customer call me and thank me for the fuse when he blew both of them! Al K. ---------------- Al, I for one am one of those guys who is grateful you put those fuses in there. I know I contacted you a while back to thank you for that protection. In my case, a bad "power" switch on a SS amp tried to fry my Klipsch. Thanks to Al, all I was out was a run to the store for replacement fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 Al, it's your design call, and I am a satisfied repeat customer of yours, of course. So please don't take my opinion the wrong way. I am not saying something negative about your product. But on the other hand, I have owned and still own other expensive speakers that were not fused, as a matter of fact, most modern speakers are not fused. The replacement costs of the individual drivers should they break would probably cost much more than a K33E. So personally, I think that it is a matter of personal preference. This fuse-less view is widely held in the industry, so I know that I am not completely wet. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlb945 Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 To Dylanl See attached photo showing special wire to both crossover and speakers. The answer is yes, I used this wire throughout. Some history and thoughts follow. I used this Mil-spec Belden hook-up wire (MIL-W-16878/4) in several colors to update a pair of Dynaco ST-70 amps for a friend with outstanding results. I decided to use this same wire in my ALK designed crossovers. I used double-spun wire throughout the crossover itself (can see in photo). Used double-spun for tweeter & squawker and triple-spun (green and white in foreground of photo) for the run to the woofer. The cable between speakers and amp shown is 10 ga high purity copper. After a few months, I got further improvement by replacing the 10 ga with Nordost Solor Winds (12 length). I originally saw this wire used in applications at a nuclear fuel production facility several years ago. The custom-built measurement and control devices used this hook-up wire throughout. The engineer for the lab (an audio friend as well) suggested that it made solid state amplifiers sing. Ive never tried it in a solid state rebuild but I can tell you it makes a considerable difference in golden age tube gear. I am working on my own ST70 rebuild with the same wire. Before I rebuilt the ST70 driver board, I purchased 10 each of every resistor/capacitor and did a match of L/R channels using an antique bridge. I think they may be matched to 1% and can hardly wait to complete this project. I wont argue with AL that this upscale wire does not make a difference. I can tell you that I have heard one other pair of K-horns with ALK upgrades being driven by McIntosh Amp and Preamp and the image generated from my rebuild produces a better 3D image with good to excellent recordings. Im talking pinpoint accuracy in width, depth and even height! But, this is an evaluation with my ears and there could be some bias. >>>Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted January 13, 2005 Share Posted January 13, 2005 JC, The ALK's will take your existing La Scala's as far as they can go IMO. Unless you change drivers that require network changes I am more than certain you will be extremely pleased with the performance of your ALK's. Now just to clarify I have never heard the AA's. But having had AL's and currently using ALK's I cannot imagine much more detail, clarity and smoothness with my current driver configuration, K77/K55M/K33E, than what I am currently experiencing. Of course it is all about what you hear in your system but the ALKs are an exceptional network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 "However, in the case of the ALK, the fuse is in the signal path (like putting it on the speaker cable) for "protecting" ALL of the drivers at the same time." Not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 12:59:45 AM DeanG wrote: "However, in the case of the ALK, the fuse is in the signal path (like putting it on the speaker cable) for "protecting" ALL of the drivers at the same time." Not true. ---------------- Ok, fine - I WAS WRONG. Happy now?! Actually, it's good that we check each others accuracy (especially mine), so I really don't mind being corrected at all. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I too was thinking the fuse was for the tweeter. Nice diagram. I may still experiment with bypassing it. I'm interested to see if there is a differnece in sound. I guess I won't "crank it" though. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 You'll also find fuses in the output sections of most amplifiers -- why don't we stress out over those? The more I learn about electronics, the less I worry about that kind of stuff. Some of you guys act like the tuba won't make it through the wire unless you make it big enough!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Just to quntify how silly shorting out the fuse really is, I measured the DCR of the 2.4 mHy inductor and fuse I use in my "type A" network. The inductor measures 0.370 Ohms. The fuse measures 0.106 Ohms. Both of these totaled up is about 1/10 the DCR of the K33 voice coil! Keep the fuse and enjoy the peace of mind! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 7:38:41 PM DeanG wrote: You'll also find fuses in the output sections of most amplifiers -- why don't we stress out over those? The more I learn about electronics, the less I worry about that kind of stuff. Some of you guys act like the tuba won't make it through the wire unless you make it big enough!! ---------------- That's a good question Dean, how does the tuba make it throgh the wires? Or MaMa Cass? Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 Well Al, I can't argue with that technical response. I'll take your word for it. Can't wait to get em. Heck, even my wife has been checkin' the front porch for packages. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 ---------------- On 1/14/2005 9:40:43 PM Al Klappenberger wrote: Just to quntify how silly shorting out the fuse really is, I measured the DCR of the 2.4 mHy inductor and fuse I use in my "type A" network. The inductor measures 0.370 Ohms. The fuse measures 0.106 Ohms. Both of these totaled up is about 1/10 the DCR of the K33 voice coil! Keep the fuse and enjoy the peace of mind! Al K. ---------------- Al, Speaking of the fuse... I noticed on your website that your scematic shows the fuse as protecting all three drivers, but the photo of the network shows the fuse as only protecting the woofer. I am assumimg that the later is correct and that the fuse shoudld be after the 39 uFd Solen but before the 2.4 mHy inductor. Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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