minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 12:10:45 AM djk wrote: "with a good synergy of electronics and speakers, outboard processors like the DBX units are really not necessary to achieve great sound and really make most CD's listenable " LOL! The lights on the DBX indicate the change in dynamic range. Have you ever heard a drum kit in a normal sized room? By the time the drums start to sound real, the DBX lights indicate a 20dB change in dynamic range. 'Synergy' What a joke! (my DMP and Sheffield CDs sound OK) ---------------- i have heard a "drum kit" in more different size rooms than you can imagine.... (as well as orchestras, bands, solos, ensembles, etc) for 16 years i was a high school band director - and my jazz ensembles and jazz combos played in many, many different rooms over the years.... and i really feel sorry that you feel the need to use an "expander" with your system..... maybe if you had some quality components you would not feel the need to put "band-aid" type of equipment into your signal chain... you can laugh at the "synergy" comment all you want - it just shows your ignorance in this area..... many forum members here use tube amplifiers with their klipsch speakers because of the "synergy" between that type of amplifier and horn speakers... you can watch the lights on your DBX unit or you can listen to the music... i guess the lights are more interesting to you than actual music.... do a quick poll on this forum - ask how many people use outboard processors in their systems.... i would bet it would be less than 5%... probably lower.... ALL outboard analog units will add noise to the system... if you can't hear the noise, you must have inferior equipment.... upgrade your components and then you can sell your DBX unit to someone else who has POS components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnyholiday Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Hey Russ? I can't really say what I think of you without being banned from the forum. I guess I should throw away all my Altec 288s, 299s, 291s, 292s, 290s, 902s, 908s, MRII564s, MRII594s, 1005Bs, 805Bs, etc. Maybe I should throw away my JBL 2440s, 2441s, 2445s, 2446s, 2447s, 2410s, 2420s, 2421s, 2425s, 2426s, 2470s, 2404s, 2350s, 2397s, 2380s, 2370s, 2346s, 2344s, 2342s, 2118s, 2206s, 2205s, 2226s, E145s, etc. Or pitch my EV SM120s, 8HDs, HP940s, HP640s, HR940s, T35s, WA4000s, 1823s, 1824s, 1829s, DH1As, DH3s, DH1012s, DL15Ws, EVM12Ls, etc. All the above can sound great on about 10% of my recordings, so by your logic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 12:32:36 AM minn_male42 wrote: ALL outboard analog units will add noise to the system ... if you can't hear the noise, you must have inferior equipment.... upgrade your components and then you can sell your DBX unit to someone else who has POS components ---------------- Not to add/start any fuel to any flames, but don't forget that in addition to expaning the signal, the "Xbx" (3bx in my case) will not only expand the sound, but will also compress/quiet it some. I've got a tube amp, mated with k horns, so I'd hope I've got at least average stuff? I can put on Supertramps, Crime of the Century, start the cd and during the quiet passages I can cut the dbx in/out. With it WORKING, you will hear LESS background hiss/noise than with it taken out of the signal path. That said, if you have zero source and no music playing, it will (in my case) add a bit of background hiss when you put it IN the path. Point being, when I'm "listening to the music", it will make the background noise significantly less. When I'm listening to "nothing" yes, in my case, it will add some hiss that otherwise wouldn't be there. Since I'd rather listen to music, it ends up sounding better when in the loop, than out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Give it up djk, Russ is of the purist type and won't be swayed. I must say though I feel that I have excellent components so I hope that Russ is not dogging my system because it will most likely leave his in the dust, DBX gear or not. I still like to use my DBX 5BX-DS, 14/10 and 400XG Master Program Route Selector. I have NO additional noise or artifacts and I think I would notice it with 4 Khorns. I use it primarily to make my Satdish audio sound better. What irks me the most he has probably not even listened to the 3BX-DS and 5BX-DS but is already passing judgement. Let me tell you the DBX components make a difference. Anyone who thinks the original master recordings did not use some kind of processing or compression in the process is truly misguided. Every rack I have ever seen in a studio has at least one DBX processor or other brand that has similar functions. In addition, Soundgarden liberally used the DBX 120X-DS in mastering there big hit album I think it was Bad Motor Finger what do you think made those bass licks sound so awesome. I had a friend that I worked with that was in the purist camp and I had offered him on a couple of ocassions to try a DBX 3BX-DS, he politely refused. His sytem included a Nak CA-5AII and Nak PA-5II, Rega Planet CD and PSB Stratus Gold's or Von Sweikart VR4's I can't recall. Well one day I brought it to work and left it on his desk. He decided to take it home and try it, a week later after he played and tweeked it he decided that he had to have it. Once he got it dialed in music sounded weak without it, so I sold it to him. Being an engineer he started to improve some of the internal components like caps in the power supply and the op amp IC's to make it better. Hey you don't need to like them or need to use them, but I do and don't plan on changing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 LOL if you feel the NEED to use your compressor/expander in your home audio system..... then good for you! i'm sure that you really, really, really believe that you are improving the sound...... it's too bad that very few people on the planet use this type of professional gear in their home systems..... yep!.. all of us poor misguided souls that have to suffer with our "bare bones" systems.... i sure hope that everyone else on this forum reads this thread so they will ALL realize how "lifeless" their systems must sound with a compressor/expander in the signal path!!!! ROTFLMAO i can put on Supertramp - Crime of the Century as well in my "bare bones" system.... and i have absolutely NO NOISE at all in my system..... that is on the LP version AND on the CD.... maybe you DO have a problem with your systems!!! djk - a very nice list of professional speakers!... what kind of electronics are you using that makes you feel the need to clean up the signal with a compressor/expander??? LOL maybe one of you DBX fans can point me to ANY manufacturer of home audio equipment who recommends an outboard processor to be used with their equipment - speaker, amplifier, processor..... ANY manufacturer at all!........ oh - i guess there aren't any!!!.... you gentlemen must know more than all of the audio manufacturers/designers/engineers on the planet!!! LOL but - again... if you really feel that these outboard compressor/expanders improve the sound in your system - then GOOD FOR YOU!!! personally - i will follow the example of 99.9% of the audiophiles on the planet..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 5:57:14 AM Coytee wrote: I can put on Supertramps, Crime of the Century, start the cd and during the quiet passages I can cut the dbx in/out. With it WORKING, you will hear LESS background hiss/noise than with it taken out of the signal path. That said, if you have zero source and no music playing, it will (in my case) add a bit of background hiss when you put it IN the path. Point being, when I'm "listening to the music", it will make the background noise significantly less. When I'm listening to "nothing" yes, in my case, it will add some hiss that otherwise wouldn't be there. Since I'd rather listen to music, it ends up sounding better when in the loop, than out. ---------------- as you said - "it will add some hiss that otherwise wouldn't be there." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- as you said - "it will add some hiss that otherwise wouldn't be there." ---------------- Alas... I also said "Point being, when I'm "listening to the music", it will make the background noise significantly less." At least read /comprehend it all. Why do I get the feeling I"m talking to that "Charles" guy on MASH? Wasn't that his name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 the "real point" that you and the other die hard DBX fans are missing - or are too obtuse to understand.... is that most high quality electronics have NO BACKGROUND NOISE!.... either with music playing or not.... it is not the recording that has the noise present - it is your electronics and/or the DBX unit itself.... recordings with background noise were common once - they were called "cassettes" or "8-tracks".... i have zero noise in my LP's, CD's, and SACD's... at one time (before i owned better equipment - including my klipsch speakers) i had tried different outboard processors... they "seemed" to improve the sound... but the bypass switches did not remove them entirely from the circuit... NOISE was added.... taking them out of the loop entirely improved the sound and dropped the noise floor.... if what you are saying was reality, then there would be "audiophile" DBX type units out there to "improve" the sound for the many people who love to spend money on expensive cables, high priced power conditioners, and every other gimmick that might possibly "improve" their sound.... these products DO NOT EXIST simply because they overall do more damage to the sound than any possible benefit that is provided... once again - ask around on this forum or any forum you want - find out how many people use ANY sort of outboard processors in their systems.... if anyone is willing to admit it - you will find them on low end to mediocre systems.... go to your local high end audio dealer and see how many outboard processors that they sell/install!!!.... the dealer would probably have a good laugh at that one!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Winchester. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Man! You guys are tearing up too much. It's obvious that some of you guys are old dog's and either refuse or can't learn new tricks/ideas. Remember, it's all subjective. Live and Let Live is my moto. Who really give a darn (did you see that Amy) what the other guy thinks, as long as it sound good to you. With that said, go get yourself a nice hot cup of Tea or Java, and go bid on my gear. Remember, Bid Early, Bid Oftern and Bid like there's no tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 12:56:43 PM Gilbert wrote: Man! You guys are tearing up too much. It's obvious that some of you guys are old dog's and either refuse or can't learn new tricks/ideas. Live and Let Live is my moto. Who really give a darn (did you see that Amy) what the other guy thinks, as long as it sound good to you. With that said, go get yourself a nice hot cup of Tea or Java, and go bid on my gear. Remember, Bid Early, Bid Oftern and Bid like there's no tomorrow. ---------------- LOL and you are selling your DBX units why??????? way toooooooooo funny!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 I dunno...seems to me I've heard mentioned numerous times that when you get a quality system, and decent speakers like K-horns (they do qualify as decent I'd hope?) then you might have ALL the flaws revealed to you... yes, even those that are BUILT INTO THE RECORDING I applaude that 100% of your cd's, records, Victrolas and hula hoops are 100% noise free and not the first imperfection exists on them. I belive you too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 1:35:23 PM Coytee wrote: I dunno...seems to me I've heard mentioned numerous times that when you get a quality system, and decent speakers like K-horns (they do qualify as decent I'd hope?) then you might have ALL the flaws revealed to you... yes, even those that are BUILT INTO THE RECORDING I applaude that 100% of your cd's, records, Victrolas and hula hoops are 100% noise free and not the first imperfection exists on them. I belive you too ---------------- i'm not saying that 100% of all recordings are perfect - just that the overall sound of the system is much better if you do not use aftermarket band-aid approaches to try to "improve" the sound.... and we're all waiting to hear about the hundreds of people that use outboard processors to "improve" their systems???...... hey how about 20 people on this forum that use a compressor/expander in their two channel system??? wait - that's right.... anyone with a very high quality system DOESN'T USE THEM!!!! care to share with us what your "high quality system" is comprised of??? you seem to have forgotten to fill in your system information on your profile page.... hey gilbert!!!! still waiting to hear why you are selling your DBX stuff??? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 lol interestingly enough, my profile is gone. Does that happen when you delete cookies? That said, I own 1 pair of Klipschorns (recent purchase) 1 Jolida 502B (tube amp) (origional owner) 1 pair LaScalas (origional owner since roughly 1980) 1 JM 200 Peach preamp (tube) (origional owner) 3 black Academy's (origional owner) 1 pair Electro Voice Interface D series (original owner since 1979 or so) 1 dbx 3bx (origional owner) 1 dbx sub harm synth (origional owner) 1 audio control eq w/ real time anaylzer and pink noise generator (origional owner) Had but GAVE away to a friend "just because" 1 Akai open real (10") tape deck (origional owner) 1 dbx 224 noise reduction unit (origional owner) 1 Phase Linear 5000 tt (origional owner) 1 Pioneer CTF 1000 cassette deck (origional owner) I must get on my knees and apologize to you because I guess my current stuff and prior stuff is beneith your standards Mr. Winchester. I do drink Coke Classic though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- i'm not saying that 100% of all recordings are perfect ---------------- I'm sorry but I might beg to differ with you, as I quote you from earlier? "i have zero noise in my LP's, CD's, and SACD's..." I guess us mere mortals might have noise and the stuff you might purchase at the same store as us, is more special, because "yours" doesn't? Seems to me, you are saying that YOUR recordings are perfect (and 100% of them, no?) I'm happy for you for that. I don't belive you, but I'm happy for you , that YOU belive it. That's all that's really important isn't it? what you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 How is it, my profile is empty, yet my stuff is listed below? I realize Mr. Winchester didn't read what is below my post, but now I'm intrigued on that. Guess I'll not worry about it (and let him worry about it for me ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 1:56:49 PM Coytee wrote: lol interestingly enough, my profile is gone. Does that happen when you delete cookies? That said, I own 1 pair of Klipschorns (recent purchase) 1 Jolida 502B (tube amp) (origional owner) 1 pair LaScalas (origional owner since roughly 1980) 1 JM 200 Peach preamp (tube) (origional owner) 3 black Academy's (origional owner) 1 pair Electro Voice Interface D series (original owner since 1979 or so) 1 dbx 3bx (origional owner) 1 dbx sub harm synth (origional owner) 1 audio control eq w/ real time anaylzer and pink noise generator (origional owner) Had but GAVE away to a friend "just because" 1 Akai open real (10") tape deck (origional owner) 1 dbx 224 noise reduction unit (origional owner) 1 Phase Linear 5000 tt (origional owner) 1 Pioneer CTF 1000 cassette deck (origional owner) I must get on my knees and apologize to you because I guess my current stuff and prior stuff is beneith your standards Mr. Winchester. I do drink Coke Classic though ---------------- well - if you still have the audio control equalizer in your system, i can see where you are getting noise from.... no offense intended - but audio control is far from being on par with the rest of your equipment.... and graphic equailzers are known to put hiss and noise into an audio system.... even the high end Rane professional equalizers that i used to sell added noise to systems.... and despite what you and a few other people are "claiming" - i still think that even having the DBX units in the signal chain introduces noise.... yes - you hear an "improvement" when you engage the 3bx, but alot of the "improvement" is the 3bx removing some of the noise that it introduced into the signal path itself!!!! btw - it is spelled "original" but ultimately - if you "think" that you hear an improvement by using two mid-fi professional processors and an entry level graphic equalizer in your home audio system, then we all are happy for you..... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/31/2005 2:03:32 PM Coytee wrote: ---------------- i'm not saying that 100% of all recordings are perfect ---------------- I'm sorry but I might beg to differ with you, as I quote you from earlier? "i have zero noise in my LP's, CD's, and SACD's..." I guess us mere mortals might have noise and the stuff you might purchase at the same store as us, is more special, because "yours" doesn't? Seems to me, you are saying that YOUR recordings are perfect (and 100% of them, no?) I'm happy for you for that. I don't belive you, but I'm happy for you , that YOU belive it. That's all that's really important isn't it? what you think? ---------------- If I might quote myself... perhpas your music/other, has no noise, because YOU are the one listening to inferior equipment? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2005 Author Share Posted January 31, 2005 As a point of interest, I one day rewired things, guess what I found? I had a certain noise factor with straight tube, low, but discernable. I put 3bx (only) into system with ZERO music playing, noise level when up but when playing music, noice level during the music was WAY reduced relative to the ambient noise ON THE RECORDING as well as background of electronics... the net quiet, was "more black". I put Audio Control (only) into system, introduced no more noticable noise than the tube amp alone. My conclusion was, the 3bx was the additive factor with background noise when at idle. However, I also concluded that when I'm listening to music, it GREATLY reduces the background noise that I otherwise hear from my tube amp ONLY. If others agree, great. If others disagree, great. I don't really care what business others mind, it's their energy to spend. I happen to have done a side by side comparison and feel that there are times that the outboard items DO impact in a positive sense, the sound, for those that disagree, well is all I have for you/them. There are also times, I do NOT have them in the food chain, so I'm not proposing it's a 100% all the time "good thing to do", as you are proposing it's a 100% all the time, "bad thing to do" (relative to noise or other factors). It's your black/white attiude about it that (to me) dilutes your argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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