minn_male42 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 interesting read from "The Audio Critic" - fall 2000 issue http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Well, he's quit preachin and gone to meddlin. minn male. thanks for posting. Interesting article. I'd have to add that some of his criticism is scurrilous. For example, the lie that "tubes are inherently better than SS". I don't think I even know anyone who thinks this is true. Some SS amps are crap and some tube amps are crap. Another place I'd take issue with him is his assertion that redbook cd is a format which cannot be improved. I'm at least glad that he acknowledged respect for Paul Klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 That's funny. I happen to agree with most of it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I can't wait to hear NOSValves take on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I think, if there's a point to take from anything it was this: we can measure absolutely anything. If no one can show hard evidence as to why SnakeOil™ cables or whatever sound better ya might have to accept that its, well, snake oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 Item 6 is flat out false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHUFF Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ...ah, Russ has stumbled across another "know it all" that speaks in absolutes with a mouth as loud and obnoxious as his own. Congratulations, Russ (To the tune of "Old Black Magic") "that ole last word syndrome's got Russ in its spell, that ole last word sydrome that he weaves so well" Here is a link to a more open example of subjective/objective thinking: http://www.vac-amps.com/page0031.html Most notably: "The electronic measurements we make do not always accurately reflect what we hear. This simple and annoying fact applies to vacuum tubes just as it does to cartridges, digital, amplifiers, and cables." I just happen to agree with the above, but everyone's certainly entitled to their own opinions Russ, you are one of the biggest TROLLS on this forum, and a big reason I spend so little time here. You've made your point on how you feel about this and similar subjects more times than I care to count. There is NOTHING useful or constructive with letting it be known how you feel on the subject, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, unless you are attempting to solicit a following of sorts. Your background in audio retail and your amateurish experiments confirming the validity of Ohm's Law hardly qualify you as an expert. Give it a break and try dating for a while. The rewards could be greater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 7:41:46 PM SHUFF wrote: ...ah, Russ has stumbled across another "know it all" that speaks in absolutes with a mouth as loud and obnoxious as his own. Congratulations, Russ (To the tune of "Old Black Magic") "that ole last word syndrome's got Russ in its spell, that ole last word sydrome that he weaves so well" Here is a link to a more open example of subjective/objective thinking: http://www.vac-amps.com/page0031.html Most notably: "The electronic measurements we make do not always accurately reflect what we hear. This simple and annoying fact applies to vacuum tubes just as it does to cartridges, digital, amplifiers, and cables." I just happen to agree with the above, but everyone's certainly entitled to their own opinions Russ, you are one of the biggest TROLLS on this forum, and a big reason I spend so little time here. You've made your point on how you feel about this and similar subjects more times than I care to count. There is NOTHING useful or constructive with letting it be known how you feel on the subject, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, unless you are attempting to solicit a following of sorts. Your background in audio retail and your amateurish experiments confirming the validity of Ohm's Law hardly qualify you as an expert. Give it a break and try dating for a while. The rewards could be greater.---------------- OUCH. That's pretty harsh analogman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 The guy is a flat out genius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 8:25:36 PM NOSValves wrote: The guy is a flat out genius ---------------- I tought so too. It's comforting to know you agree. Who wants to buy my VRD's and Peach? NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 8:25:36 PM NOSValves wrote: The guy is a flat out genius ---------------- Which guy???? I had problems reading it on my small (14") laptop screen, so I printed it out, kept the copy in my "Audio" file. Good reading, I'd say I agree with some, disagree with others. Not saying which though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 31, 2005 Author Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 7:41:46 PM SHUFF wrote: ...ah, Russ has stumbled across another "know it all" that speaks in absolutes with a mouth as loud and obnoxious as his own. Congratulations, Russ (To the tune of "Old Black Magic") "that ole last word syndrome's got Russ in its spell, that ole last word sydrome that he weaves so well" Here is a link to a more open example of subjective/objective thinking: http://www.vac-amps.com/page0031.html Most notably: "The electronic measurements we make do not always accurately reflect what we hear. This simple and annoying fact applies to vacuum tubes just as it does to cartridges, digital, amplifiers, and cables." I just happen to agree with the above, but everyone's certainly entitled to their own opinions Russ, you are one of the biggest TROLLS on this forum, and a big reason I spend so little time here. You've made your point on how you feel about this and similar subjects more times than I care to count. There is NOTHING useful or constructive with letting it be known how you feel on the subject, OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, unless you are attempting to solicit a following of sorts. Your background in audio retail and your amateurish experiments confirming the validity of Ohm's Law hardly qualify you as an expert. Give it a break and try dating for a while. The rewards could be greater. ---------------- good for you! you should try posting over on home theater talk..... they love irrational types like yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 C'mon guys, this is actually an interesting article. Don't let it get drawn down into the mud again. I admitted that I don't agree with all of it, isn't that a simple enough answer? And I DON'T want to hear.. well he said... well he said first... whatever happened then, is then. This is now. Start over. Or else you'll both have to go to your rooms with no desert!! Don't make me get out the belt!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted March 31, 2005 Author Share Posted March 31, 2005 hey... i just thought it was interesting..... i made no comments of my own... you can read it and do what you want to with the information shuff seems to be off his medications tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 9:17:39 PM minn_male42 wrote: shuff seems to be off his medications tonight ---------------- Russ Russ Russ.... doesn't that sound leading to you? I know it does to me. It does not lend anything to the discussion, nor to trying to get away from the gist of the last thread that was headed this way. Please, refrain your comments to the Ten Bigest Lies In Audio, not direct them towards the others that reply to your original post. That goes for you, too, SHUFF! (ok, where do I sign up to get my after hours moderator bonus?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I love his slam on cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 You mean the green markers don't work? Dammit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 12:52:15 PM damonrpayne wrote: I think, if there's a point to take from anything it was this: we can measure absolutely anything. If no one can show hard evidence as to why SnakeOil™ cables or whatever sound better ya might have to accept that its, well, snake oil. ---------------- Are the basic absolute measurements a total definition of the system being measured? Perhaps we can't detect everything that is going on. I've played around with different types and gauges of speaker wire lately and I can detect a difference in the bass particularly. Not because I have a "golden ear" or because I've done A-B-X sampling, but because at low frequncies, things in the house rattled with some wires and didn't with others (even at higher volumes). The rattling effect or lack of rattling was reproducible after switching and reswitching the cables to make sure the connections were consistent. None of the wires were smaller than 16 gauge and they were all new. I didn't try any expensive "audiophile" cables just different types speaker wire, lamp wire, coax, etc. from different suppliers. I dont know if any differences could actually be elecronically measured and logic says that wire is wire. But why was there a difference? I don't know anything about measuring amps but I assume it has something to do with measuring a signal gain over a frequency range. Can the "warmth" of tubes, imaging, or the depth of sound stage be measured and quantified electronically? Is there a way to analytically prove tubes yield a signal that is "warmer and more colored"? I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I really don't know - maybe it's a routine measurement. For the record, I am content with lamp wire (EDIT: and coax) cables and solid state equipment but then again, I don't really know how much I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHUFF Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 ---------------- On 3/31/2005 10:14:55 PM scott0527 wrote: You mean the green markers don't work? Dammit! ---------------- Yes they work, as long as they're "Magic Markers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dblue Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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