tkot Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 i coppied this from an other web sight http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/ Join the Digital Front of Television Liberation! Today, you can use any device you like with your television: VCR, TiVo, DVD recorder, home theater receiver, or a PC combining these functions and more. A year from now, when the FCC's broadcast flag mandate takes effect, some of those capabilities will be forbidden. Responding to pressure from Hollywood, the FCC has adopted a rule requiring future digital television (DTV) tuners to include "content protection" (aka DRM) technologies. Starting next year, all makers of HDTV receivers must build their devices to watch for a broadcast "flag" embedded in programs by copyright holders. When it comes to digital recording, it'll be Hollywood's DRM way or the highway. Want to burn that recording digitally to a DVD to save hard drive space? Sorry, the DRM lock-box won't allow it. How about sending it over your home network to another TV? Not unless you rip out your existing network and replace it with DRMd routers. Kind of defeats the purpose of getting a high definition digital signal, doesn't it? The good news is that we have until July 1, 2005, to buy, build, and sell fully-capable, non-flag-compliant HDTV receivers. Any receivers built now will "remain functional under a flag regime, allowing consumers to continue their use without the need for new or additional equipment." Any devices made until then can be re-sold in the future. We at EFF want to do our part to advance the DTV transition -- and the public's rights to receive and manipulate DTV broadcasts with technologies they choose. We want to keep the right to time- and space-shift that the VCR has given us (against Hollywood's protest). We want to keep the fair use rights that let us excerpt clips from press conferences or make our own "Daily Show" from the evening news. That's why we're encouraging people to buy HDTV tuner cards now and build multi-function receivers and recorders around them. Here's where you can help. The folks at www.pcHDTV.com make an HD-capable (ATSC) tuner card with Linux drivers. The MythTV project has built a terrific personal video recorder (PVR) platform that gives a GNU/Linux PC features like TiVo's pause live TV and "season pass" recording. These are great for geeks, and we're looking for volunteers to help make the combination more accessible to the general public. There are also a number of alternatives for Windows and Macintosh computers that offer similar features. We still need volunteers to help make these products more accessible to more people. The Broadcast Flag: The essence of the FCC's rule is in 47 CFR 73.9002( and the following sections: "No party shall sell or distribute in interstate commerce a Covered Demodulator Product that does not comply with the Demodulator Compliance Requirements and Demodulator Robustness Requirements." The Demodulator Compliance Requirements insist that all HDTV demodulators must listen for the flag (or assume it to be present in all signals). Flagged content must be output only to "protected outputs" or in degraded form: through analog outputs or digital outputs with visual resolution of 720x480 pixels or less--less than 1/4 of HDTV's capability. Flagged content may be recorded only by "Authorized" methods, which may include tethering of recordings to a single device. The Demodulator Robustness Requirements are particularly troubling for open-source developers. In order to prevent users from gaining access to the full digital signal, the FCC ties the hands of even sophisticated users and developers. Devices must be "robust" against user access or modifications that permit access to the full digital stream. Since open-source drivers are by design user-modifiable, a PC tuner card with open-source drivers would not be "robust." It's not even clear that binary-only drivers would qualify. Together, these rules mean that future PVR developers will have to get permission from the FCC and/or Hollywood before building high-definition versions of the TiVo. The products that they do build will be epoxied against user experimentation and future improvement. The rules mean that open-source developers and hobbyists will be shut out of the HDTV loop altogether. i guess that if you dont have a hi-def dvr its time to snag one before they have the chip installed jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 I have read that HD will have such a flag at some point, but had not heard the date. Such dates may be pushed back for many reasons. I'll believe the date for HD copy protection only when it goes into actual effect. HDTV is a textbook case of FUBAR marketing mixed with politics. My set is HD ready. I have no plan to go HD because of such nonsense. 480i isn't that bad. Someone will determine an easy way to defeat the flag and pirate the HD content. Only honest people will be inconvenienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 They have been broadcasting a logo with HD broadcasts continuously to prevent copying to resell and distribute. Why do they need the flags? Ask the big fat guy's with the Cuban cigars. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 "HDTV is a textbook case of FUBAR marketing mixed with politics. My set is HD ready. I have no plan to go HD because of such nonsense. 480i isn't that bad." Yep. I saw High Definition sets at CES 15 years ago. It's all about controlling content and the hassles over what the standards should be. The MegaCorps are so afraid someone will keep them from making one more dollar that they can't even get the technology out there in the first place. It's like renewable energy.......there will be no alternatives to gasoline until the MegaCorps figure out how to control and profit from those alternatives. To do this requires government assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 ---------------- On 4/6/2005 7:54:27 AM Audible Nectar wrote: "HDTV is a textbook case of FUBAR marketing mixed with politics. My set is HD ready. I have no plan to go HD because of such nonsense. 480i isn't that bad." Yep. I saw High Definition sets at CES 15 years ago. It's all about controlling content and the hassles over what the standards should be. The MegaCorps are so afraid someone will keep them from making one more dollar that they can't even get the technology out there in the first place. It's like renewable energy.......there will be no alternatives to gasoline until the MegaCorps figure out how to control and profit from those alternatives. To do this requires government assistance. ---------------- I agree with most of what is written here except that "480i isn't that bad." I have High Definition and compared to 1080i and 720p--480i is almost unwatchable for critical viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 ---------------- On 4/6/2005 9:28:49 AM tkdamerica wrote: I agree with most of what is written here except that "480i isn't that bad." I have High Definition and compared to 1080i and 720p--480i is almost unwatchable for critical viewing. ---------------- amen! at any screen size over 40 inches the differance is quite dramatic! on smaller screens the hi def is still an improvement but the differance isn't as huge jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 If 480i is unwatchable on your set, try a Pioneer Elite RPRV with built in scaler. The 480i signal can be improved to compete. Also, the 480i is only as good as the weakest link on any system. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 It was defeated in court a month or so ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 ---------------- On 4/6/2005 8:28:01 PM MrMcGoo wrote: If 480i is unwatchable on your set, try a Pioneer Elite RPRV with built in scaler. The 480i signal can be improved to compete. Also, the 480i is only as good as the weakest link on any system. Bill ---------------- I don't wish to go backwards. I have a 65 inch Mitsubishi Diamond that displays 480p/720p/1080i, phenomenally. I spent 3 months looking at the Pioneer Elite's verses the Mitsubishi Diamonds and IMHO I made the right choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted April 6, 2005 Author Share Posted April 6, 2005 ---------------- On 4/6/2005 8:28:01 PM MrMcGoo wrote: If 480i is unwatchable on your set, try a Pioneer Elite RPRV with built in scaler. The 480i signal can be improved to compete. Also, the 480i is only as good as the weakest link on any system. Bill ---------------- mrmcgoo... after looking at your avatar i can SEE why you are having a hard time doing the hi-def thing j/k but lets be real. there is no way for a 480i picture to be anywhere near the quality of any format of hi-def.(720p/1080i) scale it,any way you want run it through a $10,000 chip set and ... its still not hi-def when was the last time you had motion sickness from watching your setup??? didnt think so!! jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 All so I can watch Regis Dustbin in hi def? Whoopee! Unfortunately all the hoopla is musch akin to the intitial intro of cable to the market... You are still limited by the program sources. 300 rather then 10 channels of cr@p to choose from. Unfortunately too much of the legacy and current programming now doesn't really demand hi-def. I would have preferred that they let the market decide and the government stayed out of it. But you say I could see Regis spread across my entire wall!? WOW! Maybe I will have to reconsider! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 If you are not watching Hogans Heroes in High Def you are truly missing out on something. I wish there were more programs in High Definition but the ones that are, have an incredible picture and are a work of art. Most of the networks prime-time broadcasts are in High Definition (although I don't watch much), as well as numerous sporting events. {Edit: Not to mention the 5.1 sound track that Klipsch fans can appreciate;-) The side benefit for those of us that made the plunge several years ago is that Widescreen DVD's upconverted to 480p look fabulous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted April 6, 2005 Share Posted April 6, 2005 "The side benefit for those of us that made the plunge several years ago is that Widescreen DVD's upconverted to 480p look fabulous!" Yup, that is what I have been saying. 480i can look very good (fabulous). Progressive scan technology is good if the source picture is good, Superbit for example. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 All I know is this....there is NO way you will find me watching Monday Night Football, or any other programming that is broadcast in HD in a normal 480i format! If anyone thinks there is no big difference, even on a smaller set like my 32" Panasonic (32" in the 4:3 size, and when set to the 16:9 format it is the same as a 30" widescreen set) you are nuts! Plus you have the Dolby digital sound to go with the HD picture with some broadcasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WS65711 Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 ---------------- On 4/6/2005 8:28:01 PM MrMcGoo wrote: . . . 480i isn't that bad . . . If 480i is unwatchable on your set, try a Pioneer Elite RPRV with built in scaler. The 480i signal can be improved to compete. Also, the 480i is only as good as the weakest link on any system. Bill ---------------- . . . improved to compete? Compete with HDTV? Um, now we know why they call you . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 hi-def.(720p/1080i) I saw this introduced to the world in the summer of 1981... There are people on this board that were not even born yet on that date. (CES Summer Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago.) They said 5-7 years everyone will have this. Were coming up on 20 years after the fact! Gotta love progress and technology! Now let the standards, patents, politicians step in to protect the USA way vs the Japan way of delivering it.. vs Europe vs whoever... It is a sad sad joke on all of us it has taken so long. And I agree with others... 480 looks like crap compared to 720p 1080i on a big screen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Some DVDs at 480p are outstanding, like Monsters Inc. Ice Age, and Superbit Fifth Element, to name a few. But they still don't compare with a good HD broadcast. After seeing Bikini Destinations in HD there's no turning back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmtnbikr Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 "After seeing Bikini Destinations in HD there's no turning back." Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Something tells me if "Bikini Destination," was 480i on DVD that a High Def. presentation of "Fifth Element," couldn't compete--Then again, it just may be me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 How can Hogans Heroes which was in 4 x 3 format be viewed properly in Hi Def? No way. High Def is 16 x 9 and no other. If your picture aspect is 4 x 3 and on a Hi Def channel you are looking at 480i or 480p which is not Hi Def. All 4 x 3 aspects on a HI-Def channel are automatically shown in 480p by the broadcasters. This is called SD. As soon as the broadcaster changes to Hi-Def the aspect changes to 16 x 9. If you have the zoom roaching out the picture from 4 x 3 to 16 x 9 correctly (top and bottom of picture missing) it's still not Hi-Def. Hi-Def is only transmitted in 16 x 9 aspect period. Exception would be 2.5 x 1 Cinemascope in "letterbox 16 x 9" with black bars on the top and bottom. You can zoom that also but you will miss half the picture. All 4 x 3 aspects are SD or RD period. SD (Standard Definition) and RD (Reduced Definition)are in 4 x 3 aspects ratios. Well now that I have confused myself its time to leave. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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