psg Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I've had my La Scala's for close to 25 years (but spent 12 of those away from them when I left for grad school and until I bought a house and finally finished the basement). For the last 4 years, they have been in a room sized 11'x30', along the 11' wall and with me sitting around 12' away. For most of that time, they were snug in the corners. I only started to toe them in a bit last fall. A few days ago, I decided to see if my room could accomodate khorns and I put the La Scala's on the long wall about 18' apart (not using the full length of the room), toed-in at 45 degrees to simulate khorn. I figured if it worked I could build a small wall for the khorn's corner (Thanks Jeff for the idea!). With the speakers in this arrangement and seated in the middle, the horns both line up on me. I listenned to some Holly Cole and some Norah Jones. Everthing I put on had the same effect... Instead of the usual soundstage, with voice in the center, bass on one side and piano on the other, the speakers simply disappeared. The voice weren't in front of me, they came at me from the front. It sounded like the sound really emmanated from there. I sat my wife down in the sweet spot and asked where the voice was coming from. She pointed to the Heresy center channel. I asked if the sound was simply centered or whether she thought the Heresy was playing it and she said the Heresy was playing. She couldn't believe it when I said it was not on at all. None of the instruments appeared to come from the La Scala's. Each has it's spot and it felt like the speakers themselves were quiet. It was eery. So I may look stupid here. Perhaps you all experience this every day and this is normal. But I had never felt it so real before. It's amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Funny how something as large as a LaScala or a Klipschorn can just disappear. They become something more than speakers, they become the musicians in your room performing a private concert. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Yeah. I figure not bad for 32 year-old crossovers. I'm having trouble believing it can get better! But I'm looking forward to trying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 You don't look stupid at all, Pete. If my Cornwalls were back in the much larger livingroom in my house (where my dad had them originally many years ago), I would've said the very same thing you just experienced! A proper room I think will make even the Klipschorns disappear...I know the Cornwalls did each and every time my dad played them through his system, which simply amazed the hell outta me. As much as I tried in my present room, these 26 year old Cornwalls could not achieve what I knew they were capable of, which unfortunantly is the reason why I'm no longer using them (they're in safe storage). Until such time as I can relocate my system back to the livingroom, then my Cornwalls will come back into service and simply amaze the hell outta me once again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 You don't look stupid at all, Pete. That's good! Maybe others are secretly laughing, but it doesn't matter. It was like a religious experience! I had to do two things: I had to call a friend and tell him about it, and I had to post here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 LOL - in my room the chair disappears, and I have to hang on to furniture as it trys to make me disappear too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Hey Pete, I know exactly how you feel. When I got my Khorns on the long wall, I was floored by the imaging. That was in January, and you'll often find me listening with this silly grin thinking I'm the luckiest fellow on earth! I've let the cable TV subscription lapse as I hardly turn on the TV anymore. I also want my friends to experience this! I had a guy I work with over yesterday to hear the horns, and when he heard the disappearing act, his face was priceless. In my room Norah's voice comes out of a wine bottle (almost). When you get your Khorns, and you will (it'll happen - you seem to want it too bad for it not to happen), make sure you have the distances exactly right. It makes ALL the difference! Glad you are enjoying your system! Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 1, 2005 Author Share Posted May 1, 2005 Glad you are enjoying your system! Am I EVER! Thanks for the input guys! As for wanting Khorns bad enough... Yeah, I guess I qualify! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Very interesting! I remember, when I experimented with the set up in my last house and put my Heresies in the far corners (very far, huge room), my jaw dropped as well. Now I moved and I have to experiment again: Room size: 20x20 ft (14 ft high), while listening distance is about 15 ft. The Heresies are about 5 feet from the side wall and I am playing with the thought of putting them in the corners. My logic says that I also have to increase listening distance then. I could make that into 17ft maximum. I am also working on rebuilding an industrial pair of LS and when they are ready, where the 'Bose' do I put these monsters? What do you think, corner or 5 ft away from them (measered from the tweeter). My..., that was a struggle converting metric to medieval on a sunday morning! One more question for you: how many yards is a rad? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Sounds like you might have a good room for Klipschorns, PSG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Timmi, Try about 3 feet out from the corner centered between the walls and angled at 45 degrees. Your listening position should be about 12 feet from the front wall. That is how mine are set up, about a half metre in front of the Khorns at the same angle. I have a 1.9CM board under the front to angle them up slightly (I don't have risers). They pull the old disappearing act too. Even though the speakers are twenty feet apart and I built a Heresy horn based center, I find no need for a third channel. The sound stage is better without it IMO. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 ---------------- On 5/1/2005 7:41:50 AM 3dzapper wrote: Timmi, Try about 3 feet out from the corner centered between the walls and angled at 45 degrees. Your listening position should be about 12 feet from the front wall. Thanks Rick! I'll post my findings as soon as the LS's are ready, Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 Pete, that's pretty much my Cornwall setup and the one that's highly recommended for a horn system like the LS. Congrats on finding audio nirvana! Rock on! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 It is amazing isn't it? You should have noticed your bass opened up and produced a little more slam as well. Yeah when you give them room to open up they really sit up and sing. I have a couch we are temporarily holding for my moth-in-law and when that goes my sound stage will move out to about 19-20 ft. now it is about 15 and that is a gain from 12 when we rearranged our house. I too noticed how much more the soundstage and imaging just blew me away, for most of my La Scala's life they were in more of a near-field configuration and they sounded great but since I have had them spaced out more the imaging is as you noticed. You are still running your old crossovers! Wait until you hear them after you update or upgrade them. I would highly recommend you try ALK universal As. It will be like your speakers were reborn anew and someone lifted a heavy shroud off of them. I am sure you would have a similar result with any of Dean or Bobs work too but I can only speak on what I have and the ALKs offer so much more detail and imaging than my previous ALs ever did. The rope caulking of my K400 also made a noticeable improvement in the sound quality as well. EDIT: My bad I misread and thought you wer set up along the log wall. Most of my comments prior to the crossover stuff are pretty much moot. Have you considered setting up along the long wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted May 1, 2005 Author Share Posted May 1, 2005 Thanks all. I don't feel stupid after all, just happy! Yeah, I'm still using the old crossovers. I'm still deciding what to do about it, from only swaping out the caps myself to getting a new AA convertible from Bob, to perhaps the Universal A kit from Al. Decisions, decisions. But when I pull that tigger, I'll also pull out the parts to rope-caulk and re-wire. Plus, I HAVE to look in that bass bin to see what is in there and mine opens up from the top (so I have to get everything out anyway to do that). Nice summer ahead! I find my current room a little narrow at 11'. It works well for 2-channel music but so far I find that sound is a little too spread out for 5.1 movies. The sound doesn't merge as well between center and mains; it's obvious when content comes from the middle. I may have to move a supporting wall by 3 feet to get the perfect room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 I enjoy the same experience, and everyone for whom I have demonstrated it has been similarly amazed. But note carefully: Not only do the speakers disappear, the front wall does also, making the listening room aurally immense. I no longer even remember what "next best" was. DR BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted May 1, 2005 Share Posted May 1, 2005 ---------------- On 4/30/2005 10:54:09 PM DeanG wrote: LOL - in my room the chair disappears, and I have to hang on to furniture as it trys to make me disappear too! ---------------- This visual has been messin' with me all weekend. Woo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 I never really noticed what you described since I listen to everything in 7 channel. When Eric (forum member that was searching for Khorns) was going to stop by and hear just the Klipschorn's, I decided to switch my NAD to two channel and try just the Klipschorn's. As Peter said the sound did not appear to be coming from the Khorn's at all. The imaging was in front of me, I had to get up a couple of times to make sure the La Scala center was NOT on. Sure enough it was not on. Wow this is wild I thought. Not trusting my ears I did the same thing I dragged the wife over, plopped her on the couch in between the Khorn's and let her listen. I asked her where the sound was coming from, right in front of her she said. I asked if she thought the La Scala center was on and she said yes, but it was dead silent. I did the same thing when Eric came over, but then I kicked in the rest of the Heritage accompanyment and his jaw hit the floor. Thank you PWK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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