Baxter Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I have just installed a new (used) pair of Reference Series speakers, Klipsch RF-7s. My problem is I can't seem to get the sound to balance correctly. It always sounds like something is out of phase. Background: I tried them out with my McIntosh 4100 receiver, and then moved to a Cayin tube amp. Way, way better sound with the tube amp. I have positioned them in corners, close to the wall, way separated from the walls... as you would expect the bass is exaggerated in the corners and decreases as I move them to the center of the room. I have experimented with lots of positions in the room. The problem gets better or worse comparitively but is always there. The guy I bought these from had the same complaint, but I thought I could probably fix it. And they do sound very very good... But I can't seem to get any soundstage at all. Sounds from the individual sides sound great but there is no real "sweet spot" where the focus is right in the middle. The low frequency response is excellent on both sides but I am thinking the highs are a little off, in terms of matching right to left. I of course tried swapping out the plus and minus on one speaker, thinking I might have the whole thing out of phase. I got the usual, totally off poor bass etc. So that isn't it. I then removed each tweeter to see if there was an obvious problem. On one speaker there is a dab of red to show where the hot wire is going. It has a green wire connected. On the other speaker there is a red sticky dot applied, but it too has a green wire attached. So this looks OK - but I could figure out how the connector worked so I didn't attempt to switch the polarity of the wires. Anyway sorry to be so long winded... I really want these speakers to reach their potential. Does anyone have any ideas? thanks B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 The Rf-7s are bi-wireable are they not? It is still a possibliity that the mid-hi drivers are out of phase. Red dots are just red dots. Try removing the gold plated jumper from one speaker and running a pair of wires X wise from the red woofer to the black HF post and vica-versa. If your image improves and the speakers disappear that was the problem and you can work out a permanent solution inside. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 10:55:28 AM 3dzapper wrote: The Rf-7s are bi-wireable are they not? It is still a possibliity that the mid-hi drivers are out of phase. Red dots are just red dots. Try removing the gold plated jumper from one speaker and running a pair of wires X wise from the red woofer to the black HF post and vica-versa. If your image improves and the speakers disappear that was the problem and you can work out a permanent solution inside. Rick ---------------- Brilliant! Can't wait to get home and try this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 Well, I tried it... de-wired first the right and then the left woofers and tried to hear which version of the connection then had better phasing (with just the tweeters)... The results are mixed, but I am encouraged to try it with the tweeter wiring. Can anyone tell me how to properly remove the lead from the RF-7 tweeter? It looks like I could screw it up if I do not approach it correctly... B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 sounds like you need a simple spl meter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Where do you live Baxter? Maybe you can sell them to me and I can give it a go? Seriously, I can't help much but I do know I recently purchased an RC-7 (replacing an RC3II) and I was having problems getting it to sound worth the extra coins. It is Cherry and beautiful but I finally tinkered with the tones and different modes that it sounds great now! It is very interesting how the subtle changes going between Dolby D PLII Music and Dolby Prologic and Dolby D Cinema can make a drastic affect on how your center channel sounds. I will be settign up my RC3II as a rear center to see if I can notice a difference with a 6.1 set-up. D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 Baxter, The tweeter terminals are spring loaded and they push down to release the wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 6, 2005 Share Posted July 6, 2005 One or both of your horns are definitely out of phase. Those babies should image really well. Sounds like you're on the right track though. I'm guessing you got a pretty good deal so it'll certainly be a worthwhile endeavor. Good luck and let us know how things turn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Oh, if you can't get them fixed, I'll take them off of your hands for the cost of shipping. It is the least I can do for another Klipschophile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 ---------------- On 7/5/2005 2:02:33 PM Baxter wrote: Well, I tried it... de-wired first the right and then the left woofers and tried to hear which version of the connection then had better phasing (with just the tweeters)... The results are mixed, but I am encouraged to try it with the tweeter wiring. Can anyone tell me how to properly remove the lead from the RF-7 tweeter? It looks like I could screw it up if I do not approach it correctly... ---------------- Another method of switching the tweeter phase would be to remove the jumper cables located on your speaker terminals. There are two sets of binding posts there that allow for bi-wiring applications. If you want to swap the phase on one of your tweeters, remove the jumpers between the binding posts then run another set of wires from your amp to the speaker. The top ones go to the tweeter (bottom pair to the woofers) so you can easily experiment by switching the phase back and forth. You might want to bi-wire both mains so that you can see if switching the phase on the other side sounds better. If eventually you can find a combo that makes it sound better, then record where the phase reversal sounds the best and then start looking at the crossover and see if something doesn't seem to be wired backwards. You might even try comparing both speakers to each other and look for anything that isn't the same on both (which they should be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicu Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I have a similar problem with my brand new RF-7's: the left and right speakers sound different and I can't get the sound to balance correctly either. One speaker has more highs than the other and the bass is tighter too. I calibrated the speakers with a SPL meter and moved them all around the room - didn't help. I'll take them back to the store and get another pair. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I love Klipsch as much as anybody here, but come on now - why should anybody have to do this sort of stuff (taking it apart, switching wires around, etc...) on a brand new speaker? -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I have a pair of RF7's a few weeks old I bought new and these stories of things not sounding right dont sound like anything I have experienced. For the fellow with the used pair maybe the previous owner was messing around inside and switched some wires. My tv and stereo gear is in between the speakers and about 8" off the wall. The speakers are sitting just about 1" forward of everything on each side about 7' apart and 7' from the listening area. Voices are imaging right in the center and a few instruments are can be heard directly from the speakers probably because of the tv and equipment in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I have had three instances where RF-7's I have modded have shown up with one of the pair sporting a 3.6uF cap on the HF board instead of the correct 5uF. I have had two instances of the series resistor being 1.5 ohm instead of the correct 1 ohm. I would pull the networks out and compare the parts (the cap and resistor values are on the parts). The 3.6uF and 1.5 ohm parts go in the RC-7, but I haven't the faintest idea how they're making it on the RF-7 board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelA Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 ---------------- On 7/14/2005 11:23:40 PM DeanG wrote: I have had three instances where RF-7's I have modded have shown up with one of the pair sporting a 3.6uF cap on the HF board instead of the correct 5uF. I have had two instances of the series resistor being 1.5 ohm instead of the correct 1 ohm. I would pull the networks out and compare the parts (the cap and resistor values are on the parts). The 3.6uF and 1.5 ohm parts go in the RC-7, but I haven't the faintest idea how they're making it on the RF-7 board. ---------------- Sounds like 5 too many times to me. You would think that these occurences would be easily detectable by QC, or is QC a thing of the past? I just recently purchased a RC-7 NIB just off Klipsch assembly floor where one of the binding posts would not tighten down, and I had to take apart to fix. Seems like too many of these stories floating around lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicu Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 My RF-7's were brand new and yet they sounded different, I'm 100% sure about that. I calibrated them with a SPL meter, moved them around, nothing helped, the soundstage was a disaster. In spite of the excellent deal I got them for - $1180 for the pair from Good Guys - I had to return them. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 You guys should mention what size room you had them in and what the wall/floor/ceilings were covered with. This can make a HUGE difference in speaker sound. It would be interesting to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProStereo Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 $1180.00 for a pair of RF-7's! I've never heard of GoodGuys ever going that low, are they a display model deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProStereo Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I've had no problems with Klipsch RF-7's so far ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockbobmel Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Well my Klipschorns are gone, and I picking up a pair of RF-7s on Saturday. I hope I don't have to deal with all that crap!. Anyway I am prolly getting the Dean Treatment for the x-overs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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