Daddy Dee Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I've been reading about Geo Wright's description of a fairly new power amp to his lineup. I've pasted in his description below. The buyer can choose to have the amp set up optimized either for EL34 or KT66. He mentions (for KT66 substitution, I'm sure) that the user can use 6L6 for 20 watts of "classical early hifi sounds". Could anyone help me out with a description of what that means. Anyone care to compare and contrast the 6L6 with the EL34 in terms of sound. Any help appreciated. Thanks. The Mono 25W is our newest addition to the power amp market. Rated at 25 watts RMS, this push-pull, Ultra Linear amp is based on the Willimiamson design of the fifties. This amplifier can be ordered with EL34 tubes and performs at 30 watts, or it can be ordered with KT66 outputs for a classical sounding amplifier of years gone bye. The design built to Wright specs using up to date passive parts is a very low distortion and high reliabile product like all Wright Sound products. While the original design was honnored, improvements in circuit topology were carefully followed to improve preformance. The amp runs Class A pp to about 12 watts, Class AB1 through 30 watts, w EL34, 25 w KT66, and Class AB2 up to approximately 44 watts peak. The driver (6SN7) is operated as a push pull common cathodet high output stage to handle the utlra linear output beam pentodes (EL34 / KT66), with a 6SN7 used as a voltage amp / phase inverter. There is a 10 dB globel feed back damping used to stablize operation so the sound is fast and accurate by design. You can even use 6L6/5881 for 20 watts of classical early High Fi sounds. Tube rollers will love this product. Suppy with EH, Sovtek or Chinese tubes, depends on output ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 I'm sure it has at least a little to do with a marketing angle, as well it should. It makes sense that some of these "boutique" houses offer a broader array of product, just as I'm sure Craig could sell some 300B SET amps if he wanted to. Hmmmm, my point? I guess he probably means a more traditional design and sound? 12W in class A seems like it would do well with high efficienacy speakers like Klipsch, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Interesting I thought 6L6 was capable of more than that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 ---------------- On 7/19/2005 9:56:00 PM ben. wrote: efficienacy ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Tubby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Watch your mouth....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Not FoundThe requested URL /textpattern/article/491/just-talkin-bout-shaft was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 tubby... is that kind of bloated bass? anything else? Ben. good stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Thanks, Mark.....a very helpful clarification/reminder/explanation etc. . Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 20, 2005 Author Share Posted July 20, 2005 Thanks Mark. That's a good word, and makes sense even to me, that the circuit rules. I guess what I'm wondering is what Geo. Wright means by that description. I was thinking about sending him a note to see what he says, but was thinking his description might ring a bell with someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Mark, a question from a nitwit in electronics: If amps, let's say the MC-30's, are designed around a tube (is it in this case the 6L6GC?), why does the amp, according to some, sound better with different tubes (KT 66 or even the 350B) with, certainly in the case of the 350B, different electronic specifications? IOW can't it be measured which tube will give the best result in frequencyrange/dynamics or whatever for a certain amp? Also in the case of the 350B, won't it be a strain on the mc's to use them? I guess, theoratically speaking, because I've never heard of any fire in Allan listening room and he's been using those for years. Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Its like trying to describe the taste of a banana to a guy with no taste buds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted July 20, 2005 Share Posted July 20, 2005 Mark, I like the "guideposts, not guardrails" metaphor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 "If amps, let's say the MC-30's, are designed around a tube (is it in this case the 6L6GC?), why does the amp, according to some, sound better with different tubes (KT 66 or even the 350B) with, certainly in the case of the 350B, different electronic specifications?" OK, time for some rambling to muddy the waters...... It's interesting, because I'm not necessarily finding preference with some of the tubes being discussed. I'm finding this IS very subjective. Even in the MC30, preferences are preferences: There is no "best" per se. I've sampled both Valve Art and GEC KT66, and preferred the RCA 6L6GC overall in the 30's. I was so suprised by my results that I thought something was wrong with my amps, because my preferences were so different from many here. On further review, I determined that it really WAS my preferences and listening tastes. I even preferred the SED winged C tubes over the KT66 types in the 30's. While not as good as the RCA's, and while not possessing the midrange characteristics of the RCA or KT66, the SED is an overall "better balanced" tube in the MC30, to my ears. The KT66 types in MC30's seem "tilted" in the response - boosted bass and recessed treble. To me, the KT66 just sounds "off" in the 30's. Place a KT66 in a different amp (like the Quads) and the sound will be different, and in my case, more preferable. On the 6L6: I am becoming a real fan of the 6L6 tube and amps....primarily for the midrange. Mark's point is a good one - circuit implementation does count and can make the tubes sound a bit different in different 6L6 based circuits. However, I am finding some commonalities (some of which is the aformentioned bass response). For instance, a kick drum. If you want the tightest, deepest, most liquid and clear bass possible, I am a big fan of the KT88 in Craig's NOSValves VRD's. MC60's will do this for you, too. Yes, I was one of the loons that came here 4 years ago and spouted that tubes couldn't do rock and roll, blah blah blah (and to which I found my own version of the BS Button). Both of these amps are very liquid, clear, and linear sounding, and are EXCELLENT when quality bass is desired. The 6L6 based amps don't seem to present bass in the same way. I see why some complain about "tubbiness", but to me, it's just a different presentation. There are other good things in the 6L6 based amps that I really like (and especially in the MC30's - THE MIDRANGE). But I'll be the first to tell you that there are power amps that do bass better than MC30's (excluding the possibility of the 350B, since I haven't sampled those). On my list of things to do: A showdown between the NosValves VRD's or MC60's vs. the MC30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I pulled out the Sovtek 2A3's in my Wrights and put in some ElectroHarmonix 2A3 Gold. The result was that all my classical albums sounded dull, but the weird stuff I listen to sounded more extended and smoother. Still, something was wrong so I put the Sovteks back in and realized that they were about 6dB louder and had much stonger bass. And they sound more dynamic. There is a synergy between the Sovteks and the Wrights that is designed into the circuit. Tubes outside of an amp circuit don't have psychco-sonic attributes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Yup. I just swapped Sovtek 2A3's into my homebrew amp. They do have a stronger bass compared to the average 2A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 ---------------- On 7/21/2005 12:43:31 PM pauln wrote: I pulled out the Sovtek 2A3's in my Wrights and put in some ElectroHarmonix 2A3 Gold. The result was that all my classical albums sounded dull, but the weird stuff I listen to sounded more extended and smoother. Still, something was wrong so I put the Sovteks back in and realized that they were about 6dB louder and had much stonger bass. And they sound more dynamic. There is a synergy between the Sovteks and the Wrights that is designed into the circuit. Tubes outside of an amp circuit don't have psychco-sonic attributes. ---------------- Pauln, I had the same experience when I put the EH 2A3 Golds into my Wrights. They sounded awful to my ears. The Sovteks have an excellent synergy with the Wrights. When I asked Geo Wright about any NOS alternatives that he liked, he said he thought they had the best sound with RCA 2A3s and Sylvania chrome dome 6SN7's. After trying out several other tubes, found out that I agreed with him. However, I have to say that while I could tell the difference and thought it improved from Sovtek to RCA, the Sovtek is a VERY good match for the Wright circuit. If it weren't for a quick A/B switch and comparison, when the difference can be most easily discerned, I doubt if my ears could tell a difference. What I mean by that, if I walked into a room where the Wrights were playing, I don't think I could hear enough of a difference to distinguish between the RCA and the Sovtek. One thing, the RCAs are prettier in terms of fireplace appeal. The Sovtek plates cover the heaters so they don't show the glow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Here's a little insight from PWK: "The beam tube in conventional amplifiers has never found wide acceptance by the users of top-quality wide-range speakers. But note the adjective: beam tubes in conventional amplifiers. There is one beam tube amplifier, decidedly not conventional, in which the beam tubes are used in a peculiar combination utilizing the advantages of the cathode follower while at the same time preserving the high-efficiency principle and high output capability of the beam type tube. This amplifier is the McIntosh, which exhibits such low distortion even at high power outputs that it is doubtful if distortion measuring equipment with sufficient resolving power is available to detect the actual quantity of distortion produced." It would seem that the "classical early HiFi sound of 6L6 tubes" was defined by McIntosh, as earlier amplifier designs based around the same tube seemed less than impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 Dear Dee, >> The classic sound of the KT66 is the W5 Health power amplifiers >> amongst others, The W5 used Perless tight would outputs which had >> great sonic range with the KT66. The EL34 is closer to the Dynakit >> ST70, only much cleaner and more robust than anything the 70 could >> even come close to. The KT66 cost more than the EL34 that is the >> reason for the pricing difference. By the way, even though you can >> use a 6L6 for about 20 watts output, it is not the same as a KT66. >> The Mono 10 just wasn't popular enough to make them profitable to >> carry and the Mono 25W has more power and is a very clean amplifier. >> Best, >> George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 the magic of Mcintosh is not be found in the tubes but in the unique circuit in the output sections, the way the trannies are wound and wired, no other amp uses that topology and trannies...regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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