seti Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I see ads on ebay and audiogon for Mullard ECC32 tubes and they say they can be used in place of 6SN7 tubes in amps and preamps. Has anyone tried these tubes? Is this true or is this dangerous? Thanks, Seti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triode Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I see ads on ebay and audiogon for Mullard ECC32 tubes and they say they can be used in place of 6SN7 tubes in amps and preamps. Has anyone tried these tubes? Is this true or is this dangerous? Thanks, Seti Only to your Wallet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 This is a quote from the Tube Depot: "The Mullard ECC32 / CV181 is in the 6SN7 family of tubes. It is not a direct replacement, but for situations where it does work, it is one of the best sounding replacements you can use for ANY 6SN7. It really brings music to life. If you want to know if this tube will work in your system, just contact us and we will help to figure this out with you." I'd contact your manufacturer first to see if this cool lookin' Mullard can replace your 6SN7s (I'd love to know if they'll work in my preamp). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Holy $h!#...TubeDepot.com wants $200 for each tube...no thanks![8o|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I have a pair mullard ECC32 that I have tried in my JFL amp, I prefered the sound of my 1940´s tungsol round plates in this amp. Though these sounded pretty darn good. BTW the EH6SN7 is a giant killer IMHO if you have not tried those, try them. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yeah that is a bit pricey http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-ecc32.html zowee In this audiogon add they are 100ea obo http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1135912404 Are you talking about the new EH6sn7 or some vintage nos? http://store.triodestore.com/6sehelmapa.html $23.95ea not bad but I don't mind spending more IF it makes a difference. When I put my Sylvania 6SL7s in my amps I could tell a definate difference. These are for my Wright WLA12A preamp. I had one of my 6SN7s finally give out so I am looking again. George Wright recommended the Sylvania Chrome Tops and an across these mullards looking for sylvanias and was curious. Thanks for the replies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 I have entered the land of tubes that require drugs! What the hell are "Cryovalve Cryogenically Frozen Vacuum Tubes"? Has anyone heard any of these "cryo tubes"? How much did Buddha charge for Nirvanna? These guys are making a fortune! excerpt Overview of the Treatment and Grading of Cryovalve Tubes The series of operations through which an electron tube must pass before it can be called a "Cryovalve" is lengthy and in some ways, arduous. First, only the best sounding NOS (new old stock) or new production tubes are considered for cryogenic treatment. Every tube is pre-selected by Tube World on a "SOFIA" computer curve tracer and only the tubes with the most linear and evenly spaced plate curves are selected for cryo-treatment. Also, in the case of dual-triodes such as 12AX7, 6922, only the tubes with the closest triode section matching (typically within 5%) and quietest noise-floor are chosen for treatment. Pentodes such as EL34, EL84, 6550 are selected on the basis of having high transconductance and high standing idle current and are matched into pairs and quads before they are frozen. As received, a typical electron tube exhibits several problems that directly impact its sonic performance. Most serious are the many internal stresses in the construction materials that accumulate during most of the stages of manufacture and; a very hard, heavy oxide-coating on through-glass pins to which direct connection is made. Seven and nine-pin miniature tubes are typical of those pins which are heavily oxidized while power tubes such as KT88 and EL34 are fitted with bases whose pins are tinned with the result that contact quality is much improved. The degree of sonic improvement is SUBSTANTIAL. The initial 100 hour burn-in allows the tubes' characteristics to stabilize while providing an opportunity to "cull" any "infant mortals" During cryogenic tempering, the tube is slowly cooled to the -117 C / -320 F temperature of liquid nitrogen, "soaked" for many hours then slowly returned to ambient. By means of this unique and vital process, the stresses interior to the materials of the tube are substantially and permanently relaxed. During a subsequent, high temperature anneal, the tube is heated to a 175 C / 350 F temperature then slowly cooled to ambient. Although not as extensive, the results are similiar to those achieved by the cryogenic procedure. The "Q" of the (self) resonant (electro) mechanical systems responsible for the output of (self) microphonic spuriae is thereby drastically reduced. By this important reduction, both the peak amplitude and the "ring down" time of these systems is reduced with the result that the "apparent gain" of the tube is increased - even in feedback controlled circuits - while the "dynamic noise floor" is lowered. Grading for noise and microphonic performance involves both listening and intrument evaluation. Various instrumentation provides data on the noise, microphonic level and spectral content while the overall "sound" of the spuriae is critically evaluated. In particular, the evaluation of microphonic output is very much an experienced-judgement call. Dual triodes (example: 12AX7, 6SN7GT, 5751, 5687) are rated for overall noise performance by the noise-output level of the noisier "tube" or triode section. Thereby, it's possible for a tube given an over "standard rating" to contain an ultra-low noise (ULN) section. ULN rated tubes however, always consist of two ULN sections, hence the higher cost per tube. The last few steps in the process are the standard yet essential procedures for the evaluation of many important electrical characteristics such as GAIN, PLATE CURRENT and TRANSCONDUCTANCE. Additional data is generated indicative of the GAIN and DC BALANCE of each tube's sections. Quite simply, "Cryovalve" electron tubes are the tube of choice for virtually all high performance audio applications: Your satisfaction is guaranteed! Each tube has its own serial number and comes with test data for: Cryovalve Sonic Comments Cryovalve "Special-Select and Premium-Graded" NOS tubes are the finest sounding tubes in the world. I can hardly put into words how wonderful this new batch of Cryovalve tubes sound, they are so outstanding you are literally hypnotized by the music: Greatly perceived DYNAMICS due to reduced noise floor (blacker background) VERY! focused and sweet midrange. Incredible top to bottom tightness to the music.Mid-Bass articulation is excellent (tight!)Sub-sonic (Deep) bass tracking is phenomenal (especially hip hop bands) Emotional recordings will bring you to TEARS!Youcan hear individual instrumention in each channel in the mix much better. The foundation of each recording can be followed perfectly. You just hear more music! Cymbals have incredible SHIMMER!Sweeping musical passages rise and fall like a tidal waveClosely miced recordings are ALIVE! in your room. You find yourself INSIDE! the recording.Background vocals buried in alot of mixes are readily apparent and become a bigger part of the recording.You can hear every waver in a singer's voice Customer Comment on Cryovalve Low-Noise NOS tubes: To say impressed would not be enough! To say jaw dropping astounded still would not approach the exact sentiments! To reach nirvana is close, but still can't describe it! But if you have ever wanted to treat yourself to pure musical purity and bliss, then you have go to be willing to buy some of these Cryovac tubes. They are worth every penny they cost. My system is comprised of Audio Prism's Mantissa Pre-amp and Debut MKII amplifier. First I bought some 6DJ8/Mullard cryovalve's in my gain stage and I was very impressed with the overall changes in my system. More musical presence, clarity, bass enunciation and range that went on and on. Later, I purchased some Gold-Grade 12AU7 Mullards for my output pre-amp section , sat down to listen, and ..., I was struck by lightning. I never knew music could sound this beautiful. I could swear that whatever I put on, put the musician right in my living room. What enchantment, what beauty, what all! and out ecstasy! Please, if you can, try these tubes in your system, and I'm sure you wont be sorry. I'd say more, but I want to get back to the music, I can't seem to turn it off anymore! 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jt1stcav Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Personally, I think it's a crock of BS, but that's just my opinion. Maybe it's all true, then again, maybe not. I just think it's rubbish unless I'm proven otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I'm with you all the way on that one Jim! Total snake oil if anything subjecting a tube to that kind of extreme temps will degrade the tubes seal. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Yeah that is a bit pricey http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-ecc32.html zowee In this audiogon add they are 100ea obo http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstube&1135912404 Are you talking about the new EH6sn7 or some vintage nos? http://store.triodestore.com/6sehelmapa.html $23.95ea not bad but I don't mind spending more IF it makes a difference. When I put my Sylvania 6SL7s in my amps I could tell a definate difference. These are for my Wright WLA12A preamp. I had one of my 6SN7s finally give out so I am looking again. George Wright recommended the Sylvania Chrome Tops and an across these mullards looking for sylvanias and was curious. Thanks for the replies... I've got a slew of good Tung Sol 6SN7 that I'll probably never use. I should probably sell a few of them. Send me a PM if you're interested, I can dig them out and see what's what. I don't think they are from the 40's. Maybe late 50's or 60's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 You HAVE to freeze the amp with the tubes, if you don't you get molecular misalignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I was intensely curious about the Mullard ECC32 and for a good while looked for a decent deal to try these out. Never did run across a good price. However, I did run across a couple of postings on shootouts with a number of 6SN7 tubes, including these. Don't remember the gear, but testing group consisted of several buddies and on both of those, the ECC32 was well regarded, but also middle of the pack among 6sn7's in this particular group on whatever particular systems. I ended up thinking that the price was a result of small supply rather than killer sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Being a blacksmith, I deal with heat treating metals and can speak a little to the above blurb on sub-zero quenching of metal. I am not a heat treating "expert" but I know a little more than the average man. To whit; Sub zero quenching has SOME usefulness for SOME tool steels. It refines the grain structure more than you can get at room temp. HOWEVER, the sub zero quench is just PART of the process. The steel is first heated to critical temp (around 1600 to 1700 deg F) to get the grain structure to change from ( I think I remember correctly ) pearlite to martinsite. The higher you heat the metal after the change, the larger the grain crystals grow, thus you take the metal to a specific tempature that has been determined before hand by testing labs. You then quench the metal to room temp in oil or water (depending on the steel alloy) and from THIS POINT, you then continue the quench to sub-zero. To temper the metal, you need to reach the tempering heat ranges of 350 to 600 (depending on alloy) then quench again to room temp. So with the above said, the process of starting at room temp then cooling to -320F will not have the effect that it would have if you started at the critical temp. Then to "temper" at 350F is just touching the tempering range. Further, the tempature of anything just starting to glow red (heaters in the tube anyone?) is about 1000F and a bright red but below orange heat is about 1600F. So what happened to the "temper?" Granted it is only the heaters that get this hot but the rest of the elements of the tube do get pretty darn hot also. Will this affect the sound of the tube??????? I think it is pretty much "hog wash" myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 1, 2005 Author Share Posted November 1, 2005 Scotto527, Sent you an email. Dee, I agree they look interesting but after checking the going rated it seems too much $$$. I could probably get some really sweat Sylvanias or RCAs for the same price. It sounds cool gotta give it to them on the marketing front. I mean Cryovalve Cryogenically Frozen Vacuum Tubes sounds like something from a movie like "In Like Flint". I am suprised they don't sell cryo amps LOL talk about $$$$. I bet after spending so much on tubes their attention is more focused on the sound of their system rather than the tubes making a change in the system. Cal, Thanks for the insite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Seti, The ECC 32 works well in my 2A3 Moondogs. I bought mine at much less that $200 each. Whether they are worth the dollars is strictly a personal call. Much depends on what your ears hear and what you are listening for within your system. Other than the Mullard ECC 32, I also like the Mullard ECC 33 which is the direct 6SN7 equivalent and I like the Brimar CV1988 (6SN7GT). Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 I'm watching about 6 ebay auctions on Sylvania 6SN7W and some VT-231's. The nomenclature they use for tubes is very confusing to me even if you settle on the brand you have Sylvania VT-231, 6SN7W, 6SN7WGT, 6SN7WGTA, 6SN7GTA, 6SN7GTB, 6SN7GT and I am sure I left out a few. Is there a tube bible out there that helps distinguish between them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I don't know about a tube bible out there, but this website might be helpful to you: http://www.tubeseller.com/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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