j-malotky Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 D-man did a great job in his post. Let me add a few more notes:The Khorn is designed to run the K33 into compression where the CornW is just a ported cabinet. To drive the K33 into compressin, the Khorn puts the K33 into a very undersized sealed cabinet behind the cone. In front of the cone, the K33 is covered in plywood with a small slot cut in the middle. In this configuration, the K33 is only designed to travel 1/8 of an inch. The compressed bass comming out of the slot is then amplified with the double horn bass bin, making the bass very fast and loud.A K33 in compression vs a K33 in a ported cabinet are two very different anamals.JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 i be willing to bet... and Terry bears it out ... what You don't like , Jeff ... is the Cornwall mid horn./ driver good point too ....J-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 How could it be, Duke? Same driver, no? Would it because because of freq. cut-off differences in crossovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Think they are trying to say its the greater distortion on the CWs that you are perceiving as being louder at lower amp power than the Khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 I know they are, but don;t know why there'd be greater distortion if the same driver is used? Is it only the size of the horn? That would be an easy mod... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Think they are trying to say its the greater distortion on the CWs that you are perceiving as being louder at lower amp power than the Khorns. I remember an old marantz TV spot in the 70's........"Don't turn down the music, turn down the distortion"........ IMO, the amount of distortion, (pain) keeps you from putting more power into it. Be it from the LF or Mids. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Think they are trying to say its the greater distortion on the CWs that you are perceiving as being louder at lower amp power than the Khorns. I remember an old marantz TV spot in the 70's........"Don't turn down the music, turn down the distortion"........ IMO, the amount of distortion, (pain) keeps you from putting more power into it. Be it from the LF or Mids. Terry i think that's expressing what we were all trying to get at .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 BTW, still don't think anybody provided the right answer on why I can push more volume through a K-Horn. All the explanations about folded horn and placement had to do with why it might sound louder at the SAME volume. Why can I actually push alot MORE volume through a KHorn than a Cornwall? Artto nailed it, but I think you missed it (or it wasn't explicitly stated). The ultimate limiting factor for any woofer is the excursion and power handling capabilities. Once you run out of one or the other you either melt the VC (exceeding power handling) or you slam the VC against the magnet (loud clacking sound and will scare the crap out of you - usually breaks the VC too). Anyways, the cornwall is a direct radiator. You pump one watt of power through it and you get about 98dB of sound. At 70Hz this results in 0.436mm of cone movement (hardly visible, yet pretty loud). But in the khorn, you pump one watt of power through it and you get 104dB of sound. At 70Hz you have the same .436mm of cone movement, but you have a lot more SPL. Or if you want to think of it another way, the khorn woofer is only moving 0.109mm at 98dB. (btw, excursion is enclosure and frequency dependant and I arbitrarily picked 70Hz which is far away from any of the "confusing" frequencies). Since you're running the same driver in both speakers, you run out of power handling at the same time. But when that happens, the khorn will be 6dB louder than the cornwall. The other way to think about it is that the cornwall runs out of excursion 6dB before he khorn. In the case of the cornwall you end up running out of excursion far before power-handling (which is a very good tool in preventing blowing the speaker). In the case of the khorn, I think you run out of power-handling first...which means you can pump a bit more power for short amounts of time. There are all sorts of other nonlinearities that come to play at the extremes, but hopefully just looking at the most fundamental concepts makes it apparent why horn-loading is such a good thing. As you can imagine, the nonlinearities of a hornloaded speaker tend to be far less in magnitude than that of a direct radiator (so in the end we might be talking about a good 10dB of difference in favor of the khorn). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 For every top drawer transducer available by an OEM, there must be a score of different cabinet designs incoporating each speaker. It's amazing how different each driver sounds in different cabinets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Agreed, it comes down to the transfer of power. Think about the difference between running across a wood floor and a mattress. It is easier to push against a soft surface like a mattress, but you can't effectivly transfer power. A good hard floor allows you to make your running effort payoff - it resists your feet - but that is just what you need to transfer power and run well. The direct radiator offers less mechanical resistance to the effort thereby being less effective in transfering power. The hornloaded compressed woofer acts stiffer and more mechanically (air pressure and horn) constrained, but this is just what allows a better transfer of power. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 Slamming the VC againt the magnet scares the crap out of you. That's what I must have done that one time with my Corn. Did not break anything, though (that I am aware of). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 14, 2005 Author Share Posted December 14, 2005 I got it, now. Thanks for all your input. It was mentioned about how many makers use the same drivers and different boxes to effectively make a different sounding speaker. I get that, but I have one question on the economics of the deal. What do new Corns run? I don't know. Let's say $3,000 (if they are even that high). I keep hearing new Khorns run $7500. Somebody tell me the reason why assembling wood justifies the $4500 difference. Just curious because if I could not get KHorns for alot less used, I think I'd definitely get out my table saw and start cutting wood before I spent $4500, let alone $7500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 The Khorn has approximately 57 boards in each cabinet. Some are compound mitered. You can build one, but it certainly requires more care to get all the joints correct. The Cornwall is pretty much a box. The La Scala is in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Jeff you could get your table saw out and make K-Horns but you got to buy the wood, drivers,crossover and most of all your time to work on it...how much do you charge for 1 hour your time???Have you ever made a compond picture frame its not as easy as most think.You will also need a very nice table saw.Alot of things seem easy to make till you start to make them, some members here have made K-Horns but they have alot of wood working skills.I work part time at a bike shop in high income area and alot of the wealthier people want us to fix wal-mart bikes for 2-3 dollars an hour or even for free but when they find out a flat repair is 18 bucks plus tube they get mad.I guess they think i dont need to eat or have a house while they drive 60,000 suv.Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 15, 2005 Author Share Posted December 15, 2005 Points well-taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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