BEC's Xovers Arrived

[BiggerIsBetter]

I would definitely agree with the give a little, get a little. Since the K-77 is not very extended, at least in my room, by replacing caps (and greatly reducing the loss in the case of older caps) you are to a degree offsetting the roll off which starts around 8-10K in my room. This gives you something that you were truly "missing' before, at least some decent response in the 8+K range.

On the down side, you have boosted what was likely fairly flat response in the 5-8K range to the edge of "bright" (about +3-6 dB in my room after new caps). So depending on your tastes, recordings, system, and room, that "over the top" boost in the 5-8K may be annoying or bright.

[Deang]

"...Since the K-77 is not very extended, at least in my room, by replacing caps (and greatly reducing the loss in the case of older caps) you are to a degree offsetting the roll off which starts around 8-10K in my room. This gives you something that you were truly "missing' before, at least some decent response in the 8+K range."

The old alnico K-77 rolls over rapidly at 12kHz. A healthy K-77-M easily goes out to 17kHz. Also, a "lossy" capacitor doesn't effect the extension of the driver so much as it does the output. For example, it may be 5-6dB down at 17kHz but it's still doing 17kHz.

On the down side, you have boosted what was likely fairly flat response in the 5-8K range to the edge of "bright" (about +3-6 dB in my room after new caps). So depending on your tastes, recordings, system, and room, that "over the top" boost in the 5-8K may be annoying or bright.

Actually, everything from 400Hz gets a lift, though 4800Hz on up might get a bit more in relation to the squawker. If things are too "hot" sounding, it leaves the impression there is a reduction in low bass output.

There is more going on here than "loss" or attenuation. I can build the same network with different parts and it won't sound the same.

[DrWho]

I wonder how much of this falls into the psychoacoustic realm - I'm not saying you don't hear a difference, but even a subconcious change in thought will result in you listening differently, which will in turn make everything sound different.

You still think time-alignment is crap so go play those demo tracks again and see if your crossover wasn't masking the difference. You should notice the same magnitude of change with the timbre.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I have not been able to post for days. Wow, what progress we have made! This is affecting me on many levels.

As a audio guy / engineer - Jeff has, no matter how strongly he argued his position (go figure!), actually heard the benefit of new caps. All of the rest of us here are not just imagining things. b

As an attorney, and this is huge, a litigator admitted he was wrong! Do we need to report you to the Texas Bar? There has to be something in the model rules of professional conduct against admitting you are wrong, at least for a litigator!

Lets look at the stats:

Progress wise, it took 20 years to improve the K Horns, but in "Forum Time" only three months. However, notwithstanding any "Forum Time" arguments, it took you1,250 posts to get there. A tough call. The thing that I can't stop thinking about is if you billed a 0.1 for every post, you could have probably bought new k horns.

I am actually very happy for you. I so rarely get to harass another attorney in a non-attorney setting.

The differences that you hear with each sucessive upgrade will make you say "I don't see how this can be improved more." But then it is. If you are hearing a harshness or brightness at really loud levels, that can be refined. I would look at your source (I know that you have a good amp but am not sure of your Preamp and source). My AH! CD player took away harshness as louder listening levels (using Steely Dan as the datum - by the way - nice choices in music).

I saw that a forum member has a Behringer DEQ 2496 for sale for $210 shipped and including paypal fees. Jump on this. Being able to add a few db here and take a few db there makes a huge difference. You will be happy.

Again, very haqppy to see that you are pleased.

Chris

[BiggerIsBetter]

I don't think there is any question that Jeff should, or did, hear a difference. Basically, a few 1 ohm resistors have been removed from the circuit.

Dean, thanks for adding the better info specific to the 2 driver, clears up some things for me.

Even though both the mids and high should be boosted, I saw (measurements) and heard a much greater boost in the highs. This is in a Type B, possibly something to do with the fact that the highs were going through 2 lossy caps (i.e. add resistance) and the mid cap (loss) was before the AT.

Again caviout, my input is based on results in my room (your milage will vary) and I did not use Bob's caps (which likely have different, but similar, ESR)

[mark1101]

So Jeff, now your listening to the way the speakers performed from the factory when new, or at least very close to that. Obviouly a pretty big difference in your case.

I had the same experience initially with thinking that the restoration might be too bright on my '73 corns. But......the system is probably not actually too bright unless it's the other components. You just need to get used to good sound again.

It should even get better as the new caps settle in.

Enjoy.

[Jeff Matthews]

Mark, I never thought it would be too bright; I just thought the difference would be nominal at best. The difference is remarkable, and it is still not too bright (for me anyway).

Who, no psycho-subconscious-acoustics effect. Check the timing of posts to see how long it took me to swap them out, listen to a couple tunes and write the review. Then, subtract what you think it it took to swap and write the review. Basically, as soon as I put them it, it was done and immediately noticeable.

Chris, I forgot about that rule. It won't happen again. [:$]