Couple of basic LaScala Questions

[mike stehr]

Moot......

[pauln]

So if you were listening to rock (like Yes for example), then the lascalas will not be very satisfying at all unless you added a sub to them.

Rock unsatisfying on LaScalas? How troll-like of you to say so.

Did you miss the expressions of satisfaction posted by LaScala listeners?

[DrWho]

Did you miss the expressions of satisfaction posted by LaScala listeners?

Bah...I would just write them off as having never heard something better []

(like the person that loves the quality of bose when compared to his $3 computer speakers).

[]

[heresy2guy]

I've got both Heresy IIs and La Scalas with AL3 crossovers and the bass between the two is fundamentally different, not only in sound, but in intensity - the La Scala bass will definitely deliver a swift "punch" to the chest that the Heresy II can't even come remotely close to doing. My wife knows nothing about speakers but even she admits that when you crank the volume, the La Scala will "thump" you while the Heresy II won't. And like I said before, the folded horn bass of the La Scala doesn't sound anything at all, to me, like the sealed enclosure of the Heresy II. I will say that the La Scala sounds like a Heresy II on steriods with respect to the midrange, probably because they both share exponential squawkers, but the La Scala's massive squawker is crossed over so much lower and its sensitivity is so much higher that it enables you to hear infinitely more detail then the Heresy II. It's truly a night-and-day difference in this regard.

I'm happy with my La Scalas sans subwoofers when listening to music but am not happy at all when listening to a DVD/Movie. The low end requirements are totally different. Music demands fast, accurate bass while a movie soundtrack (T.Rex roaring, explosions, etc...) demands something a bit more boomy, or exaggerated, to coin Doc Who's term.

[DrWho]

The "thumping" that everyone describes with the lascala isn't so much

LF extension as it is the lack of power compression when you crank it.

The heresy simply doesn't punch as hard because the driver also has to

move further to achieve the same SPL (due to the lack of hornloading

and it being a smaller driver). It can easily be shown with bass guitar

riffsthat reside in the 40-50Hz region that are very full and present

on a speaker like the cornwalls, but are completely nonexistant with

the lascalas. Don't have drums and guitars and organs and synths that

play that low? Then you're probably not going to find the lascalas

lacking in bass (mostly because the recordings will be mixed in such a

way so as to compensate for a possible tonal unbalance).

[Deang]

Did you miss the expressions of satisfaction posted by LaScala listeners?

Regardless -- everything Who said is correct -- except the 'mute' thing.

[DrWho]

Ok, that's twice now....is it moot and not mute? I looked up the

definition of moot and it didn't make sense with the meaning of the

phrase I've always heard it used with.

[steamer]

(gosh I wish the search function worked better)...

I have a few LaScala questions. I've read MANY posts saying they are lacking in the bass department. And there is no comparison to Khorns, Cornwalls, Chorus, etc. And one needs a sub. OK fine - but is it 'tolerable'? If I heard LS's, would I say 'OMG, the bass s*cks!"?

Assuming what I've been reading is correct and they are weak in bass, how are the mids/highs? I would think they'd sound great and similar to Khorns?

I'm curious how they can be described compared to other Klipsch.

One more question... Can LS's be pushed up against a wall? Or should they be away a bit & if so, about how much is optimal? Thanks!

It's really going to depend on who responds and what kind of music they listen to...the claims that they dig down to 40Hz are completely ridiculous though. Below the 70Hz Fc of the cabinet the speaker acts like a normal sealed cabinet...with the K33 -10dB around 50Hz makes a lot more sense. How low it goes after room gain is really a mute issue (which I cover a bit later).

Anyways, I would never even consider using the lascalas without a subwoofer for 2 channel. But I do greatly prefer the lascala + subwoofer sound over that of the khorn any day of the week.

I have actually had the opportunity to do an instantaneous volume matched ABC comparison between the cornwall, chorus II and lascala with updated crossovers. The cornwall has the best bass by far - yes it's over exagerated but it sounds great with a lot of music. The chorus II has by far the best midrange and most accurate sound. The bass is a bit lacking in comparison to the cornwall, but the bass totally destroys that of the lascala. The only thing the lascala might do better than the rest of the other drivers is in the lower mids. However, a lot of people don't like the upper mids from the squaker and have upgraded to better options - two popular ones are the altec multi-cell squakers and Al's Trachorn design (I would highly recommend the trachorn approach).

I would describe the lascalas as sounding like a bigger version of the heresy - and not really digging that much lower either (again, I have done instantaneous volume matched comparisons).

And as a side note - one should never rely on room gain for the LF response. First of all, room gain doesn't start occuring until around 30-40Hz in a typical medium sized room. Sure, there are gains associated with corner placement, but that is something different (and it reveals itself as an overall increase in sensitivity...in other words, the lower lows aren't relatively boosted more than the higher lows). Also, if you had a perfect recording of a say a timpani solo - the recording will be more believable if your speaker is anechoically flat down to 20Hz than if it was flat down to 20Hz after room gain. The reason being that if the timpani were in your room, it would be getting the same reinforcment as your speakers - so in essence, flat after room gain is lacking in LF extension because it doesn't achieve the same sound at the listening position that the live instrument would. Room gain is merely a decieving marketing ploy...Btw, there were quite a few klipsch engineers that have explained this to me (as well as some other "smart dudes")...so it's not me just making something up.

So if you were listening to rock (like Yes for example), then the lascalas will not be very satisfying at all unless you added a sub to them.

I would have to agree.

I have been listening to Scala's for 20 yrs or so,the first couple with no sub,then when I paired a Velodyne with them there was no turning back.

We all have different tastes for sound as well as different acoustical environments.I prefer to position my Scala's out from the corner a bit and they tend to sound weak in the bass not a bad thing because its very fast,detailed and hits hard(especially at higher volumes)but rolls of too soon for my taste,my perception.

I find that there is a lot of information on a recording below the point Scala's drop out and a sub fills in that.I guess you could also call it reinforcement,I like live sound at the local adult beverage despenser and subs give me that in home +I get the awsome sound of LaScala's and what they do best...and its not low bass.

An interesting note:My Velodyne sub had some issues awhile back and would shut down on thermo overload(I was drivin things pretty hard..getiin into the sound).Most times when it shut down you really did'nt notice because the Scala's loaded the room up and there was no need for a sub,were talking HIGH volumes to achieve this.At lower spl's I like my subs because it adds power and ambience to the music.

Greg

[meagain]

Moot. As in 'the issue is moot'. Though.... http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20010319

[Jeff Matthews]

Moot, as in something has changed and there is no more issue. Like when a patient dies, the issue of whether to pull the plug becomes moot.

Back on topic, the LaScalas are great speakers. That's how I was introduced to Klipsch. I agree the Khorns go deeper, but I would find it surprising, or disingenuous, to hear somebody say the LaScalas are not truly awesome speakers. If you have Khorns, good for you, but it does not mean LaScalas are utterly lacking and not a good choice.

As far as well-rounded, I think the Cornwalls are more well-rounded than LaScalas in their sound mix. Who said the bass is too much and sounds unrealistic. Wrong! The bass in Cornwalls is superb! I still think Cornwalls are, by far, the best bang for the buck.

I'd take LaScalas at a good price anyday, but I'd factor in size and placement of those beasts.

[DrWho]

Who said the bass is too much and sounds unrealistic. Wrong!

No...I said the bass in the cornwall is exagerated, but it certainly

sounds better that way with a lot of music. I never said it was too

much or unrealistic []

[NOSValves]

Did you miss the expressions of satisfaction posted by LaScala listeners?

Bah...I would just write them off as having never heard something better []

(like the person that loves the quality of bose when compared to his $3 computer speakers).

[]

This from someone with years of experience. Man I guess I must of heard the bottom of the line from every speaker company on earth then.

Craig

[Z4!]

This from someone with years of experience. Man I guess I must of heard the bottom of the line from every speaker company on earth then.

Craig

Perhaps just not the top-of-the-line?

All kidding aside, do you really think the LaScala goes as low as a Khorn; or just that the LaScala is a better speaker all around?

[Duke Spinner]

those people listen to the "jazz brunch" ..kinda music ...

[meagain]

[]

[edwinr]

A jazz musician goes to audition for a job playing in a broadway musical.

Orchestra leader: Can you read music?

Jazz musician: Not enough to hurt my playing.

[Dirk Diggler]

The La Scala bass is not weak, it is tight, accurate and detailed. While it may not have much output below 45Hz, what it does have is lightning quick and more than acceptable for just about any music genre sans Rap and Organ music. Some consider having a sub a necessity, but I tried a pair with a vintage Sansui 25W per channel receiver with them in my cellar and the bass was outstanding! I used a pair for my rears before getting my 2nd pair of Khorn's.

The top end is identical to the Khorn and when it comes to vocal presentation this is where the La Scala delivers in spades, my La Scala center is awesome and even with it laying on its side and me sitting off axis from it I can still hear every little detail. I could have used a Belle, but I wanted a speaker with a matching K-400 horn.

You should be able to push them up against a wall with no issues.

The La Scala is a damn good speaker and sometimes does not get the credit and respect that it deserves.

What he said....

[Ray Garrison]

This is an argument that's been raging off and on here since I joined the forum. Tom Brennen and I have disagreed on this totally, completely and without any prisoners for years.

First, the answer to whether La Scalas have, uh, sufficient bass will depend more than any other factor on the kind of things you listen to. If your forte ( [:$] ) is organ music with lots of content in the shake-the-foundations sub 20 Hz category, like the Organ Symphony or such, or movies like WOTW, there are literally octaves of sound the La Scalas simply cannot produce. You may hear doubling of the fundamental which may give the impression that they are reproducing, at least to some degree, what you're feeding them, but that's not true.

I've owned lots of Klipsch over the years - KG4s, La Scalas, KHorns and currently CF-4. The La Scala, particularly with Al's crossovers, sounded wonderful. But they had *NO* bass. *NADA*. *NONE*. Below about 50 or 55 Hz the response dropped like a stone. A very heavy stone. I added an REL sub, and I was very happy.

I, personally, would not select La Scalas unless I could add a subwoofer. I'd simply never be happy.

If you don't listen to a lot of stuff that has sub-45 or 50 cycle content, then you're never going to find them lacking. They're really, really good speakers.

They just have *NO BASS*.

IMHO - er, make that IMO

[meagain]

Well, what if one were to use them as surrounds for khorns for 5:1? I would think they'd go well. Yes? Or, what would go with Khorns? It would be nice to find something shallower size-wise, but I question anything else matching them properly. Belles are out of the question as they go for mega bucks.

[Jeff Matthews]

This is an argument that's been raging off and on here since I joined the forum. Tom Brennen and I have disagreed on this totally, completely and without any prisoners for years.

They just have *NO BASS*.

IMHO - er, make that IMO

I remember Tom Brennan well. As fledgling as I was, I could tell this guy was chunking hash. As he berated LaScalas and Heresies (ranking Heresies as a 2 out of 10 - the worst, chainsaw screechers he ever heard in his 30 years of audiophile authority), I happened upon his posts in another forum touting the Heresies he owned as the most wonderful sounding speakers of their class - bar none. Hence, my avatar of choice, with many thanks to NosValves for giving me the best laugh I ever had on this forum.

We haven't seen Mr. Brennan around much since then. [] Too bad, we could have been friends!