sfogg Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 "One point about Mr. Paul's cross at 6000hz.... he didn't have a tweeter reasonably capable of 4500 hz. " Or the other way to look at it he didn't have a mid-range reasonably capable of a higher crossover point either. He basically had to go with right aroudn 6kHz and it was literally more or less on the ragged edge for both the tweeter and the K55V. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Who -- the Beyma is 100x60. I don't know what the K-77 flange is.. Oops, it's the bullet tweeter that are 50x50...silly me (the beyma bullet is 40x40 too). I suppose it's a bit off topic, but what the heck is a "bullet" tweeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The K77 (EV T-35) is a diffraction horn; it won't compare in dispersion to anything else mentioned above unless you mount it vertically, the way it was intended AND designed to be used. The horizontal mount used by Klipsch is not correct and has NEVER been correct for the horn in question! I would assume that one of the major differences you hear (aside from the frequency repsonse) is due to the dispersion characteristics being different. Basically apples and oranges. The Eminence does have a better frequency response, and it is certainly a better fit for horizontal placement. The K77 is "out of joint" being horizontally mounted, of course, so not really a realistic comparison... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The K77 (EV T-35) is a diffraction horn; it won't compare in dispersion to anything else mentioned above unless you mount it vertically, the way it was intended AND designed to be used. The horizontal mount used by Klipsch is not correct and has NEVER been correct for the horn in question! I would assume that one of the major differences you hear (aside from the frequency repsonse) is due to the dispersion characteristics being different. Basically apples and oranges. The Eminence does have a better frequency response, and it is certainly a better fit for horizontal placement. The K77 is "out of joint" being horizontally mounted, of course, so not really a realistic comparison... DM D-Man, I always thought the K77 vertical (correct) orientation was due to the horn and not the driver. Am I understanding you that it's the K77 driver (not the horn) that needs to be in the vertical orientation for correct dispersion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Who, these are JBL 075 bullet tweeters: Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 The K77 (EV T-35) is a diffraction horn; it won't compare in dispersion to anything else mentioned above unless you mount it vertically, the way it was intended AND designed to be used. The horizontal mount used by Klipsch is not correct and has NEVER been correct for the horn in question! I would assume that one of the major differences you hear (aside from the frequency repsonse) is due to the dispersion characteristics being different. Basically apples and oranges. The Eminence does have a better frequency response, and it is certainly a better fit for horizontal placement. The K77 is "out of joint" being horizontally mounted, of course, so not really a realistic comparison... DM Very true. Which raises the question: Since the BEC tweeter has basically the same shape as the K-77, will it not also work better in the vertical orientation? And, if not physically constrained to the K-77 mounting hole, could the dispersion of the Eminence horn be superior to the BEC tweeter mounted horizonally, or even vertically ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I have posted this before. I don't see the real problem with the K-77 horn being mounted horizontally as long as we are talking about the typical home setting where everyone is listening within a rather narrow angle anyway. Look at this attached pdf and see what you think. Bob Crites t35polarresponse.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 I've got a question that has possibly been discussed before, but I'll ask it anyway. It has been mentioned in this thread and others that the K-77 or T35 is not able to cross as low as 3500, but all the old Electro Voice systems use the T35 and they all cross at 3500. Why would all their systems cross at 3500 if that's too low? The mention of the vertical mounting as being the correct method is true with all the EV systems where they always mounted the T35 vertically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Who, these are JBL 075 bullet tweeters: Rick I've got a pair. They are hard to dial-in, but they don't sound too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 "Look at this attached pdf and see what you think. " Interesting, the polar data for vertical and horizontal is measured with the long axis of the tweeter horizontal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Guys, The 6000 Hz crossover in all Heritage speakers was forced by the fact that the "crossover" doesn't actually cross-over the squawker. It allows it to run full-range depending on the driver (K55) to poop out a 6000 naturally. Only the tweeter is actually filtered. To lower the crossover to 4500 a "real" crossover is required. The K77 also can't be counted on to work well below 6000. The reason a 4500 crossover sounds better is becasue the squawker horns in all the Heritage speakers STINK! The faster you cross over AWAY from them the better! AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennyboy Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Al, Okey , is the K-400 that bad ? I mean, Paul took almost a lifetime in his horns . Most important he was aware of life music................ Bennyboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I'm always telling Al he's too hard on that horn. In the world of horns and drivers the K-400/401 and K-55 combination may not be considered "great" -- but in the context of speakers and sound in general, or compared to the great majority of direct radiating midranges -- I think the combo sounds damn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I'm always telling Al he's too hard on that horn. In the world of horns and drivers the K-400/401 and K-55 combination may not be considered "great" -- but in the context of speakers and sound in general, or compared to the great majority of direct radiating midranges -- I think the combo sounds damn good. Dean I think you are right about this. To my ears, the BEC tweeter with the K400/K55 crossed at 4500hz on a stock type A crossover is a bang for the buck champ.... and the sound is a noticable order of improvement over stock. IMO. A few weeks ago my wife, Jan, was listening with me. She does not listen to music critically. She did though, notice the difference and commented, "wow, that really sounds good." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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