Khorn veneering

[wwh]

I purchased a set of Khorns a few months ago that had been water / mold

damaged on the bottom and 4" up the face. I used an epoxy product to

seal and strengthen the mold-damaged wood, but the bottom was beyond

repair. I have finally completed sealing / replacing the moldy parts

(see first pic below) and am preparing to re-veneer both speakers in

the set (only one was damaged, but both speakers -- raw birch from the

factory -- were stained a strange poop brown color and the varnish was

applied across the grain, causing unsightly drip lines.)

I have read most of the veneering information in these forums (it's

amazing how much expert woodworking information there is in the Klipsch

forums), but have a few detailed questions that remain unanswered.

So, veneer experts:

1. I plan to use the PVA glue + iron technique to attach 10 mil

paper-backed walnut veneer. Has anybody used this technique on a flat

surface as large as the Khorn bass bin? Any problems?

2. The bottom 4" or so of the birch separated on the mold damaged

speaker. I have removed the loose veneer (see second pic below), but

obviously can't veneer over the resulting "step" in the surface. If the

new veneer is roughly the thickness of the birch that was removed, I

plan to just cut an extra piece to fill in (sanding and using filler,

of course). Will I have any problem bonding 2 veneer layers in this

area?

3. How should I veneer the small ledge on the bottom panel of the top

section (just along the bottom of the grille)? Will veneering only the

visible portion (1" or so wide) cause trouble reassembling the top

section? I have considered veneering under the motorboard and between

the top section's bottom and side panels, essentially raising the top

by the thickness of the veneer. Any reason I shouldn't?

4. To prepare the existing surface for reveneering, I have removed the

old polyurethane with chemical stripper and sanded. The surface is very

smooth -- should it be roughened for better adhesion?

5. After stripping, I used an orbital sander on the stripped surfaces,

including the edges. I realized later that the sander's foam pad caused

the edges to become slightly rounded. Will this cause a problem

attaching the edge banding? If so, how can I re-square the plywood

edges?

6. I plan to cut the edge banding out of the same 4x8 sheets I

purchased for the primary surfaces. Is it easier to attach the edge

banding before or after veneering the adjacent surfaces?

7. I have selected a flat-cut walnut veneer and plan to put only a

satin clear finish on it. Any recommendations? Polyurethane, tung oil,

etc.?

Thanks in advance,

- Bill

Replacement bottom panel and tailboard:

Removed front veneer:

[jorjen]

Repair looks good Bill, too bad they were in such a hard luck position.

I have had some experience veneering Khorns. I hope that I can help.

1. I think you would achieve better results, especially on the large face of the bass bin if you used contact cement(Weldwood)and placed your sheet using four or five wood dowels. I have found that using the iron on method for small parts is OK, but not the best for large, flat surfaces. I think Greg would agree with me on this one. You can have visible imperfections(bumps, dimples, waves, etc.) show through with the iron on method even with 10 mil backed veneer and thicker. You can use both methods on your project, really I think that is the absolute best way. I did.

2. Should'nt be a problem.

3. Not quite sure what you are asking. Are these C's or B's?

4. Surface is fine for either method as long as it is clean.

5. Don't worry about it. It happens. You won't see it. Not much to do about it now anyway.

6. Edgeband after the surfaces are done.

7. Go for oil. Tung Oil or try some Watco Teak oil on a small sample of veneer as per the directions, you may be amazed at the results. Application of these finishes is much more forgiving and easier to apply as well, which will be important on the large, flat surfaces(think bass bin face).

Veneering Khorns is a monumental task, believe me it is no joke. Take your time, and there is alot invested. The end result can and will be astonishing, so it is worth the effort. If I can help in any way, shoot me your landline and we can talk about it.

[BS Button]

You should be just fine. Remember to iron from the middle outward after the glue on the back of the veneer and the substrate, dries. Keep us posted and "do not" get any Titebond II on the veneer surface before you iron: make sure it's clean on the surface, first. Use an old ragged out T-shirt. Works great!!!!!

BS

[ricktate]

I think you should use Minwax wood filler to square up the edges and fill in the step down where the layers were removed.Square up all corners and edges you wont be sorry...it takes time to do this but you need to do it, in fact i used Minwax on the whole face of my Ks to make sure the face was flat and smooth.I would also buy iron- on edge banding,,,,if it becomes damaged its easy to just take off and replace.I used contact cement water based on mine worked fine,,,,i had a few air bubbles but used iron to get those out no problem.I would recomend BLO for the finish it you want oiled look....when you sand the face after putting filler on use biggest piece of sandpaper you can get and wrap around a big board to make sure you dont round the edges again.Since you got these all apart i would test for air tightness, i found leaks in mine in the upper and lower corners so i poured glue into those corners then turned it upside down to do the upper corners.To test air tightness just cut a board and put inplace of woofer with rubber gasket to seal the slot up.Then when you put the woofer door back on leave one screw out since it goes into the air chamber you can add air to it.At first on mine air went out faster than it went in,,lol,,,but now when i take away the air hose ,air comes back out of chamber so i know its air tight.I also siliconed all the joints i could get to inside the air chamber.Rick

[ricktate]

Before you lay on the veneer make darn sure there is no dirt on the bass bin or veneer or it will cause a bump and drive you crazy,,,,i took off a whole sheet of veneer because of this, you learn fast that way but it hurts the wallet...lol...wastnt funny at the time.Rick

[3dzapper]

Some good advice so far. If you are refering to the flat plate between the bass bin and the grill on aB model, I laid 6" of veneer there. Been kicking myself for not doing the whole board ever since.

Completely disassembling the top hat makes it much easier. I did one each way.

Rick

[jorjen]

Rick,

Did you get my email?

[formica]

see reply below... [:$]

[JJkizak]

The iron on veneer is very tricky and you should practice on something first to get the hang of it. The surface must be perfectly flat and I cannot emphasize that enough. Edges and corners can be reformed with automotive fibreglass repair kits. If the veneer is cut straight enough you can even do a butt joint and plastic wood the joint and it will look good. The veneer will also fold around the corners of the sides of the bass section. If you are using an electric sander do not press too hard as the heat generated will remelt the glue and you have a mess. It will never be flat again and you will have to remove that piece and start over. I temporarily screwed supports to the bottom and top of the bass sections so the flat portion would face up for easy sanding, etc. You can also see the "glare" of the light for imperfections. My personal opinion is next time I will go to Lowes and purchase 1/4" thick finished plywood or the countertop stuff.

JJK

[3dzapper]

Rick,

Did you get my email?

Have now!!! Reply sent.

Rick

[wwh]

A clarification of question 3 -- these are style "C". The ledge is the

front 1" or so of the top section's bottom panel, shown below.

[wwh]

Hmmm.. Only one attachment permitted per message?

Anyway, my plan with question 3 was to veneer the area outlined below,

under the squawker/tweeter motorboard and the top section's side panels.

[3dzapper]

That's about what I did wwh except I went in in the front as far as the ends of the side panels.

Rick

[Travis In Austin]

Repair looks good Bill, too bad they were in such a hard luck position.

I have had some experience veneering Khorns. I hope that I can help.

1. I think you would achieve better results, especially on the large face of the bass bin if you used contact cement(Weldwood)and placed your sheet using four or five wood dowels.

Jorjen,

Where do you suggest placing the wood dowels. I am not sure if I understand what you mean by using the dowels but am very interested to learn how you used them as a guide for placement of those big pieces on the bass bin. Given you only get one shot with contact cement, anything that aids in getting things lined up would be most appreciated.

Travis

[3dzapper]

Travis, It doesn't have to be dowels which can be expensive.

I used some pieces of 2x3s across the face of the bass bin. You lay the cemented veneer piece on top of the spacers so that it does not touch the cemented face. That way you can get the propper alignment.Then, spread the two closest to the center apart so that you can roll the center into contact. start from the center of the center with good pressure and roll about two inches at a time lengthwise and out across. When that section is done, spread the spacers a bit more and repeat......

Rick

[jorjen]

There you go Dwilawyer, Rick has it. I just like to use dowels so they can be rolled out. As Risk said, does'nt have to be dowels.

[formica]

My personal opinion is next time I will go to Lowes and purchase 1/4" thick finished plywood ...

I've wondered about this, and how it would affect the appearance.

Obviously the side edge banding would be wider, and the upper "home

plate" overhang would be smaller but how would it affect the

overall look.

Anyone here try that?

[JJkizak]

About the edges, my patternmaker friend used to make professional stuff and would shave off 1/32" strips from the plywood and glue them to the edges. You must have the right equipment to do this however. Maybe a small router with a wood guide. The finish thickness of the plywood is only 1/32" anyway and if you sand through it you will hit a glue layer. He made some stunning stuff with oak, walnut, cherry plywood which is very expensive. He would also mix sawdust from the cuts to color the glue properly.

A trim strip of some sort might dress things up. There is a lot of that stuff at Lowes and Home Depot.

JJK

[Guest " "]

I used to buy the wood edging in rolls....it came with hot glue already applied on the back that activated with heat.

Concept of making your own out of the same plywood stock is intresting for those who want an exact match to the stock they used, but this has got to be an art that few can master.

In my earlier years I used to cut solid wood stock in thin layers for use on plywood edging. advantage was that being straight, and never rolled, it was easier to work with. Also seems to glue better than the pre-glued rolled stuff.

dowels as guides....good idea...suggestion if you want to allow for future "removability" of the two peices......put the dowel in a drill, and spin it against some sand paper and make half the dowel smooth. the half with ridges would get glued into one surface, and the smooth side would slide on (and later off) the removable peice. However, better option would be to use metal pins available at the major home supply outlets.

[ricktate]

Woodworkers supply has iron n edging in 3/4...1...2...inches you could use that for the small area but rember you can see the little lip on the side all the way back to where it angles for the corner so you have to do more than just alittle bit of it.Do not forget about the bottom part of the top board it shows to.Rick