Clarence Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The NAD wins. No contest. Amazing hi's, slamming lows, plenty of power for the transitions. Maybe it "just my ST-70" but this little NAD Monitor series is UNBELIEVABLE. Kudos to Josh at Recycled Audio in Longmont, CO for a seamless transaction. Double boxed, priced right, described to a "t"... I bought it sight unseen. No pics. 50 watts of Heresy rocking power. The FM tuner isn't as strong as I would have liked, but I need to try a better antenna than the coax-wire I plugged into the back. the CD player will be here this week. I now know why this 'Vintage" NAD equipment is in such high demand. I switched the OHM selector over to 8 OHM from the 4 it came shipped at. This is right, correct? I looked at the HIII spec sheet and it rated the Heresy at 8 ohm. I gotta tell ya, I was almost giving up hope on the HIII's. I'm glad I tried a different source. I might need to get my ST-70 looked at? Or, maybee this is the way it is. flame away. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Selecting 8 ohms is your best bet, but actual impedance varies while music is played. I'm glad you are happy with your Heresy III speakers now. Do you still want a sub anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 I am shut off for the time being. Still waiting on the CD player to get here. I just barely squeeked the receiver by "ol' ironsides" I told her it was cheap 80's crap and I got a crazy deal..... (which I did!) I think I'm good for the time being. I am really amazed by the difference 15 watts and SS makes on these heresys. I might need to get my tubes in the dynaco tested? I know Autospec used "tested old stock".... suggestions? It sounds good when warm, like crap when cold.. It just seems like that when I bought it all anyone was talking about was "tube watts are SS watts x 3" and "it takes 3x the wattage to raise 1 DB" I dont really care about sheer volume, but I do like strong bottom end, sparkling hi's, and plenty of punch. the ST-70 doesent seems to have it. (headroom I think) I bought 3 CD's tonight, and a TERK antenna. I am going to try and rebuild my CD collection. I am starting with the classics.. Supertramp "breakfast", "crime", and Dire Straits "title".. The Terk I bought is an unamplified FM with a coax. Not easy to find, but cheap. ($12.99 new??) Most indoor amps are powered, and I dont need more interference than I already have in my system. I am still having problems with interference around my system.. I am almost sure it is my wireless network, cordless phone, and wireless squeezebox. I am going to shut them all off one by one and see who the culprit is. I would ask for help, but I helped myself already by getting the NAD. does anybody have any suggestions or comments on my findings with the dynaco? C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 "about was "tube watts are SS watts x 3" " Some disagreed with that. "and "it takes 3x the wattage to raise 1 DB" 2x the wattage to raise 3dB. "I dont really care about sheer volume, but I do like strong bottom end, sparkling hi's, and plenty of punch. the ST-70 doesent seems to have it. (headroom I think)" Is the circuit on yours stock? If so the somewhat tubby bass is from the coupling caps. They roll off the signal to the output stage too much, then the feedback tries to correct it and it just sort of works the input stage too hard. If you can solder put in 1uf (450v) coupling capacitors instead of the 0.1uf that are in there. It will help tighten up the bass and will make it sound better overall. Don't worry about spending big bucks on these for the test. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I certainly know where your coming from with the NAD 7100, i picked up a beauty at the thrift store a few weeks ago. It is doing duty on my back deck driving a pair of Kg4's, the neighbours just love it. Man.. i just love my neighbours, the only comment they ever make is "crank it up". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Clarence, Thanks for the post. I'm glad you are enjoying your HIII's. About what is the price range for a decent 9100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I really can't understand why people are so 'shocked' to hear how musical NAD amplifiers sound with Heritage... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Glad it worked out for you, but somewhere along the line you will want a sub, so now is a good time to keep your eyes open for a sub deal if you run across one. Thought I read where you have a set of KG4's, suprised you didn't have a sub with them. The longer you have the Heresy's the better you'll like them. If you don't have room for Khorns, or La Scala's, or want to spend big bucks for Cornwalls, the Heresy is a great choice, great sound, small size, good bang for the buck. Get the speakers first, worry about the power source after. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triceratops Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Clarence, Nice to read your post. I think that a lot of people assume that tube audio gear is inherently better sounding than solid state audio gear and that expensive gear is inherently better than inexpensive gear. Unfortunately, this audio hobby is more complicated than that and Klipsch speakers reveal all sorts of deficiencies in equipment that most of us would rather not have known about. I myself had a big Sony ES home theater receiver a few years ago that sounded great with my Magnapans, ADS's, and other "forgiving" speakers I connected it to. Then along came a pair of Klipschorns. I bought them, hooked them up, and was horrified by what I heard. I even tried a few other receivers and the results were only incrementally better. So I blamed the Klipschorns and sold them cheap. Fortunately, I kept reading the Forum and gradually learned that I gave up on the horns too soon. I have since bought many varieties of Klipsch Heritage speakers and have run them successfully with both tubes and solid state, both cheap and not-so-cheap. For me some of the biggest revelations have been some of the good sounding inexpensive solid state gear, along the lines of the NAD you mentioned. Some perennial favorites on the Forum have been the Harman Kardon X30 Twin-powered series from the 1970's, championed by former Klipsch employee Andy, aka HDBR Builder. I have also had good luck with the Nakamichi Stasis receivers (Nak licensed the design from high-end amp builder Nelson Pass) and with several Denons I have tried (recently the DRA-545R). I'm sure there are many other inexpensive units out there that others have discovered that have a good clean first few watts, and really shine with the Klipsch Heritage speakers. On the other hand, don't give up on your Dyna. It seems like vintage tube gear is a little like a vintage British sports car. You need a good mechanic (e.g. Craig aka NOS Valves) or learn how to do it yourself, but once you get everything running just right--well, it can be magic! Have fun with your Heresy III's! Best in horns, triceratops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Craig tried to explain the deficiencies inherent with that stock circuit and caught nothing but grief for it. It's a minimalist design, and though it probably sounds very nice, it certainly isn't going to compete with the better solid state designs in slam and transients. To have your cake and eat it too, some things need to be done to it. Shawn offers up a good starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Hey all.. Thanks for the posts! I think this is a valuble experience, and would not hesitate to refer "tube newbies" to a thread like this. It is a real world, budget friendly comparison of two well respected options in the world of 2 channel audio. Daddy Dee, I have seen the 7100 range anywhere from $199, (what I paid) to $300+ for a Mint example with box, manual, and remote. I am pleased with my purchase, and even gave the seller a "tip" to make sure it was well packed and arrived safely. I have seen "good" examples with no box or manual bring $300 on eBay all day long. oldenough, congrats on the thrift store find! I dont know how you lucky SOB's do it! You wouldnt mind sharing what you paid, so we can all be jeleous, would ya? =) edwinr, I dont know if I am "shocked" as much as I am "impressed" NAD has a great reputation out in cyberspace. I AM shocked that I had never heard of NAD in the past, but I guess I really wasent paying attention. oldbuckster, thanks for the kind words! the meds must be working! =) triceritops, I promise not to give up on the Dynaco. I need to sit down, let it warm up, and do some real a/b testing. A was just floored by the NAD right out of the box. I must admit, I think that a reputable SS amp like this would be a bit better of a starting point into the world of 2 channel than the ST-70. just my opinion. I will have the Dynaco forever. I do not usually sell equipment. lets knock on wood that I never have to. DeanG, I agree completely. I was impressed by the "new" look of the st-70. The "bodywork" and color pushed me over the edge. I am sure, now that it can be sonically improved. I am actually buying one of these https://secure.tubesandmore.com/scripts/silverware.exe/moreinfo@d:/dfs/elevclients/cemirror/ELEVATOR.FXP?item=K-502 simple 8 watt tube kits, just to give it a try. I in NO WAY think I can work on my ST-70. Maybe down the road. Now wheres that soldering iron??? Thanks, C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 And yet there are still those who very much like the sound of the original design. I have found that modifications are best done with a basis of comparison, which for the Dynaco, in my opinion, would and probably should be the original circuit. There is no other way of knowing whether (any) modification is an improvement or a compromise. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Clarence: I've suggested the same kit in the past on this forum. Available in both monoblock and stereo versions. The first runs of these were said to have problems with the tube sockets becoming quite warm, and steps have been taken to remedy that. For the investment, they've gotten pretty good reviews. Have fun with it! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 Thanks Eric.. This is like a complete 180 for me, huh? I remember a few months ago when I couldent even fathom why somebody would want to build there own amp??!!?? Strange things are happening here.... C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Clarence: What's neat, too, is that it already has a volume control so a preamp isn't needed. Doesn't mean you couldn't use one with it, though. This whole thing is a journey of learning, and you will be steps ahead in the understanding of how things work by undertaking this project. It might be neat, too, to get some understanding of how tubes actually do what they do -- as well as the roles of capacitors, resistors, and so forth. Packs of carbon comp resistors are cheap at Radio Shack, as are the solder lug terminal strips and hookup wire. You can mount the strips on a piece of board, and just practicing stripping (use a good quality wire stripper) and soldering parts together before you tackle the amp. Anything new is a little strange at first, but once you get it, soldering is really very easy to do. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Clarence: "This is like a complete 180 for me, huh?" Good! It means you're willing to try something that seemed (and may still) a little foreign and have a go at it anyway. Read through the whole manual a couple of times, and just work slowly. Our days are filled with deadlines and due-dates. This is a personal thing where you can take your time and do each and every step carefully and slowly -- and really enjoy the process. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarence Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 I was asked for some more info regarding the DIY tube amp, so I figured I would post the link for everybody.... http://tubesandmore.com/ click kit, and audio. they have a cool monoblock too! C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Craig tried to explain the deficiencies inherent with that stock circuit and caught nothing but grief for it. Quite the understatement there ol' Dean'o. Actually, you can find posts from Craig everywhere (on this forum & others) touting those deficiencies and stating unequivocally the Dynaco's need to be 'rebuilt &modded' to perform. In fact, Craig has said, and I paraphrase "stock, an Eico bests the equivalent Dynaco hands down. The differences between an Eico and a modded Dynaco are small. A stock Dynaco is just so-so at best." I don't think there is any doubt if you want a kick-*** Dynaco, you have Craig do it (his experience and his musical preferences are part & parcel of the design of the upgrade and address the issues most have with the Dynaco's)... or spring for his VRD's which go above what the Dynaco is capable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 ...or split the difference and get his Mark III "VRD Jr.s"...or just get the EICO HF-81...[]...'course I have both the EICO HF-81 (Thanks Daddy Dee[]) AND Craig's VRDs (Thanks Robster[]) and love them both!...Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I promise not to give up on the Dynaco. I need to sit down, let it warm up, and do some real a/b testing. A was just floored by the NAD right out of the box. One of SS ' important advantages... plug and play (both installation and reliability) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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