Help, S.V.P.: What Are Black Klipschorns Worth???

[Stephen D.]

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and do not own Klipsch (yet). I'm just into middle age, ~3 years into somewhat serious audio, prefer vinyl, etc., etc. My electronics are Wright Sound (WPP200C phono pre), WPA3.5 2A3 SET monos, and WLA12A line stage (if CanadaPost can ever get it here! Curse this unionized socialist Trudeautopia!). I've read that the WPA3.5 2A3 - Klipschorn pairing tends towards the magical, and thus I am pursuing a local Klipshorn acquisition.

The pair I've found are completely black. The crossovers are AK-2, and the speakers date from the early 80's, I believe. The gent is the 2nd owner, and I believe there are no boxes or packing material. From his description and the provided photos I'd say the speakers are a conservative 7/10 on the audiogon.com rating scale and possibly an 8/10.

So what are they worth?

The average audiogon bluebook price for 'older' klipschorns is $1,790. Ebay sales for wood veneers seems to average $2k - $2.5K. I would think that a non-veneered black would be less in value (please correct me if I'm wrong). Does $2k sound reasonable, too high, too low?

The seller is in a rural area here in Canada (all prices is US $, though), so there's virtually no local Klipschorn market. Thus I seek input on what the consensus is for fair market value for such a pair. I have no intention of low-balling the gent or anything ignoble - we'd both just like to know what a fair price would be.

Many thanks,

Stephen

[Parrot]

Welcome, Stephen. The audiogon guide sounds right. Considering they aren't fancy wood veneered, US$2000 would be on the high side, but not unreasonable if they look real nice in person.

You will get much better results if you use almost *any* other amp. Those particular monoblocks are the worst tube amps I've ever heard. But if you really like them, they'll probably sound better playing through Klipschorns than any other speakers.

[Stephen D.]

Parrot,

Thanks for the information. I have to go and walk the dog (no kidding), so I won't go off topic about the Wrights, but I wouldn't mind 'discussing' sometime later.

Cheers,

S.

[Parrot]

We'll see you when your dog is done walking you.

Wrights aren't off-topic, though, because you mention that you've heard that pairing them with Khorns is magical.

[charlieboy]

I would never say those amps are the worst I have heard. I owned a pair

for quite a while and I have definatly owned worse sounding amps that

cost more. Hope you get the Khorns BTW!

[Parrot]

You may have heard more amps than I have, Charlieboy.

[charlieboy]

FWIW the pair I owned hummed like a "moaning banshee" through my Khorns

on silent passages and with no music ! LOL! That said they did sound

really good though with some Electro Harmonix 2A3 Gold Grids.

BTW Welcome to the forum Stephen.

[SilverSport]

Welcome Stephen...enjoying my K'Horns with Tubes...GET 'EM!...under that black paint should be Oak (albeit perhaps with some slight visual flaw...so they are painted black at Klipsch)...Bill

[scott0527]

If it's a Klipsch applied black paint job, they will probably look much nicer than if it is a DIY paint job. I agree with the A-gon estimate. Sometimes the A-gon averages are a little low so and extra few hundred wouldn't be out of the question. In your picture they look nice, will you get to see them in person?

Given the lack of Khorns in your area, if you like them, don't let a couple of hundred dollars keep you from going for them. If you've got good corners in you home and plan on staying there a while, you'll be glad you have them.

[Stephen D.]

Everyone,

Thank you for the kindly welcome. I'm back from the dog run (rescue from the Humane Society about 3 weeks ago), so I have a few minutes to post. Firstly, I'm getting the sense that around the $2K US or a bit less sounds about right. Maybe those who haven't given a specific amount could offer their best guess or price range and then I can get a rough average. If the gent and I can agree on a fair price I think we can consumate the deal without any great angst. I don't think my current room is great for Klipschorns (but not a disaster), but I tend to move every 3-4 years so I can always look forward to a better setup downstream.

As for the 3.5s, they're my 3rd iteration in amplification (SS to KT88 PP integrated to 2A3 mono SET). They do an amazing job on my 89db Gershman Cameleons (http://www.gershmanacoustics.com/cameleon.html). I quite like the low level detail retrieval I'm getting, which should be vastly improved with 104db/w/m of Klipschorns. I get no hum with the stock Sovtek 2A3s. I have KR 2A3 blue bottles, too, but there's hum with them in the circuit. A shame, because with BDR cones (a must) they're great on the detail.

Anyhow, thanks for the information and I welcome further fair price suggestions.

Cheers,

Stephen

[PrestonTom]

Stephen,

Welcome! The price is decent. Really the issue is whether you and your significant other can live with the black finish. Others may quibble about the vintage (crossovers & flavor of the drivers), but the important issue is that these are Klipschorns! The tweaking can come later.

The finish & vintage does modify the price but the bigger driver on the price is condition & whether you can pick them up or do they need to be shipped. Each cabinet is about 150-175 lbs. They are big & heavy. However the side pieces (grills) and tops are easily removed (held by some wing nuts).

Before getting bent out of shape about which amp you are using, two thoughts. First, the speakers are very efficient and do NOT present a low impedance. So do not worry about tons of current or tons of watts. The consequence is that they are ruthless on an amp if it has any distortion, noise, hiss or hum. It will be faithfully reproduced. Second, by design they must be be placed snug in a corner. If this is not done, you have given up on an otherwise superb low end.

Those are my two thoughts. IMO, if those two issues can be resolved then by all means go ahead and get them. Then you can worry about the other issues of electronics....

Good Luck

-Tom

[3dzapper]

Stephen, A hearty welcome. Those Khorns will purr with your Wrights as long as you don't want a live Stones concert. At normal (85Db) listening levels, they are sweet amps. I had Daddy Dees for an audition for a few weeks, loved the Sylvania spring cathode tubes in them. Better than RCAs. The Sovteks aren't bad either for the cost. Chinese tubes were just too polite in the bass.

Mr Parrot has a thing against SET amps period. Methinks he likes to listen to his symphonies at 105Db. Definately not SET territory unless you love the sound of clipping. Even a 300B amp has a realistic limit of 95 Dbs with Khorns. 60 watt PP KT-88 amps will do the Dead at110Db and not break a sweat if I can remember back to Thursday properly!-)

Good luck in your negotiations. Remember too the cost of shipping on some of those Agon or Ebay Khorns. That can run $500 over the selling price.

Rick

[Stephen D.]

Tom, Bill & Everyone,

Again, thanks. I'm planning to go Sunday and bring my amps and CD player to audition the Klipschorns. I'd go tomorrow but I've tickets to take my boys to the Jays-WSox game. Here's where the speakers will go, with no TV or chair in the middle of the room. 12' across with a small cathedral ceiling, all opening into an open conept kitchen-dining room. Hopefully this will work. The stand is based upon a TNT-audio design with 1.5" cherrywood shelves that a friend made. The upper TT shelf floats on 3 BDR cones for mechanical isolation. Also pictured is my old Cayin/TAD TA30 integrated amp.

Cheers,

Stephen

[SilverSport]

Stephen...I think you will be very pleased...good luck!...Bill

[Chris Elm]

Stephen,

Greetings and welcome from Alabama!

When trying to post pics, try this:

Go to the options tab, click file attachment, click Add/Update, then browse to your picture, Save, and post. Not necessarily in that order

If you are already doing this please disregard.

[J M O N]

Stephen:

If they are factory black Khorns, then they will probably be pretty nice. The factory black khorns will usually be an oak veneer that didn't match up, so they finished them in black. You should still be able to see nice wood grain, so if they are factory black, I wouldn't lower their value by too much.

Regarding the Wright 3.5's... I have a pair of these along with Khorns and they are an outstanding combination. They do play fairly loud for only 3.5 watts. However, I have heard somewhere here that these amps can put out 8 watts of clean headroom. This would make sense to me since these amps can play much louder than I thought 3.5 watts had any business doing even with the efficiency of Khorns. For what it's worth, my two channel system augments my HT setup, and I have no volume problems in HT, which surprised me. These little amps can play loud enough for about 98% of my tastes. If I really wanted to rock the joint (and I mean really rock it), then I would need to switch over to my other amps. Even with the Wrights, I do worry about neighbors being able to hear it when I'm running them full tilt.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I have the same 3.5 monoblocks as you do and they sound fantastic with my Belles. They will work very well with K Horns, especially if you like what you are hearing right now.

The first night that I had the 3.5's hooked up, my wife came downstairs to tell me to turn it down because the floor was shaking upstairs from the bass. I was really surprised.

Chris

[sunburnwilly]

Whatever your willing to pay .

As an option from Klipsch they are just a step above raw birch .

[Stephen D.]

Hello Everyone,

I had a great and long day yesterday at the Jays'WSox game. I think I'll be too busy to go and audition the speakers today, so I'll make arrangements to do so next week with my Wright Amps. I get the impression that, in good condition, the $2k mark is a reasonable price for black Klipschorns. I wouldn't have to pay for shipping, which is an advantage.

Here's the living room where the speakers will reside, less the TV and chair in the middle:

[lwhaples]

Welcome to the Forum! Nice system. $2k and no shipping sounds

like a good deal. It may be a long week,waiting to hear them.Good Luck!

Larry