Cornwall II help.

[homeoption]

Hello, I just purchased a pair of Cornwall II's and as funny as this sounds, they are too heavy in the low end and too laid back in the top end. I have had other speakers sounding really good in the same room, including Heresy I's that I think sound very smooth and a little lacking in the lows, but more listenable. The room is around 12ft wide 24 ft long and high vaulted ceilings with an opening into another room where the left speaker is.

Any suggestions on how to improve the sound of my Cornwalls would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Henry

[Gilbert]

Sounds like there's something wrong with your cornwall's.

What year are your speakers? If you don't know, post a serial number. Are you running the original crossovers in them?

[homeoption]

They are 1986 models and no evidence they were modified. Being II's with the newer crossover and drivers may be to blame, or my epuipment might be too warm sounding.

Thanks for the reply.

Henry

[LarryC]

Put your ear right up next to the tweeters on both sides, to make sure they're working. Blown tweets aren't that uncommon in used speakers, and might cause a merely dull sound. Check all three drivers on both sides by the same method.

[boom3]

I also have 1986 Cornwall IIs-four to be exact. My listening room is 15 x 25 with a vaulted ceiling. The front two are pulled about 2 1/2 feet away from the corners. The back two are pretty much in corners due to flanking furniture. I find the CW IIs to be sometimes tubby on the low end thanks to a peak at 80 Hz. With the front two into the corners, the tubbiness was very prominent. I have never found them to be lacking on the top end.

By comparison to Heresies, the CW IIs will sound smoother on the top due to better midranges and tweeters. I find the Heresy Is to be somewhat shrill and perhaps that is the difference you are noticing.

How 'live' is your room? My room has a rug over 50% of the floor, but bare floor everywhere else. About 50% of one long wall is open to a hallway.

I would suggest playing FM interstation noise at a moderate volume through the Corns and listening to each driver to ensure they are all working.

I also use a Yamaha theater receiver with their "YPAO" equalization system. I find it to be a slight difference in balance but I think it helps. Colter is also a user of Yamaha with Corns so I am hoping he will join in.

[homeoption]

All drivers are working. I have them about 3 ft from the front wall and the wall on the side of right speaker is mostly windows.

Thanks again,

Henry

[PrestonTom]

If all he drivers are working, then you have ruled out the most obvious suspect.

There is a good deal of bass on the Cornwalls. The low end is not as accurate as the loaded horn designs and some folks find it a bit muddy or uneven ... but there is a great deal of bass. You are naturally comparing it to the sound of a Heresy which certainly does not go as low. But the the bass that is present on a Heresy is accurate and even.

Perhaps the comparison between the two is resulting in the apparent problem/perception. There may be a couple of simple fixes. One is the tone control knob (used sparingly). The other is to move the speakers to various locations around the room. If there are objectionable standing waves, then re-locating them could shift the problem (in the spectrum) to a different region (perhaps it will be less objectionable). If the speaker/ room interaction is giving excessive low fequency reverberation, then the solution is more difficult.

Certainly give some effort to tearking the location and room layout. Try tossing an extra carpet in the room (as an experiment) to see if that helps.

Good luck,

-Tom

[tillmbil]

Sources will play a large part in the sound. Sounds like a different amplifier could give you some differences you might like better. With tube amps you can change the ohm load to tighten the bass. I run my CW's on the 4 ohm tap. Also found that the more watts you supply the tighter the bass gets. For instance ST-70, loose bass, MC240 got tighter and added more bass. SS B@K ST202 was too bright.

VRDs on the 4 ohm tap just right.

[hwatkins]

If all he drivers are working, then you have ruled out the most obvious suspect.

There is a good deal of bass on the Cornwalls. The low end is not as accurate as the loaded horn designs and some folks find it a bit muddy or uneven ... but there is a great deal of bass. You are naturally comparing it to the sound of a Heresy which certainly does not go as low. But the the bass that is present on a Heresy is accurate and even.

Perhaps the comparison between the two is resulting in the apparent problem/perception. There may be a couple of simple fixes. One is the tone control knob (used sparingly). The other is to move the speakers to various locations around the room. If there are objectionable standing waves, then re-locating them could shift the problem (in the spectrum) to a different region (perhaps it will be less objectionable). If the speaker/ room interaction is giving excessive low fequency reverberation, then the solution is more difficult.

Certainly give some effort to tearking the location and room layout. Try tossing an extra carpet in the room (as an experiment) to see if that helps.

Good luck,

-Tom

Don't know if Tom has stated the above before, but I wanted to thank him - That is a Dead On statement of my thoughts. I have wandered all around those comments and never had anything so concise.

Thanks Tom - I agree 100%. That doesn't mean I don't like the CWs - they may be my favorite because of their versatility.

[Audible Nectar]

Sources will play a large part in the sound. Sounds like a different amplifier could give you some differences you might like better. With tube amps you can change the ohm load to tighten the bass. I run my CW's on the 4 ohm tap. Also found that the more watts you supply the tighter the bass gets. For instance ST-70, loose bass, MC240 got tighter and added more bass. SS B@K ST202 was too bright.

VRDs on the 4 ohm tap just right.

Interesting....

My friend is running Peach/VRDs into Cornwalls, and I find them a bit on the "mellow/warm" side. We initially ran them on the 4 ohm tap from the VRDs (with stock KT88, Tesla smalls, and Sovtek 5AR4) and found them too fat - a switch to the 8 ohm tap tightened the bass very nicely. They are still a bit "dark" sounding for my taste, so when we do get to tube and source rolling, we will be looking for something a bit "brighter/more open".

The sound of the speakers are fairly consistent here when moved.....they are fairly "forgiving" in that regard, at least compared to others.

I didn't know they would sound that "laid back/warm" either, but they will with "laid back/warm" gear. I do know this: when tube or amp/gear rolling, it is very easy to take them too far "the other way" - they can be made bright in a hurry.

[homeoption]

Thank you all for the great advice.

[colterphoto1]

"The low end is not as accurate as the loaded horn designs and some folks find it a bit muddy or uneven"

Gotta disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. Just check the response curves on CW vs LS for a quick proof.

Michael

[pauln]

The response curves causing the trouble may not be those of the speakers but those of the room - a 12x24 room is one of the 'bad' shapes because one wall is twice or half the other - a natural reinforcing standing wave cavity. It may have been OK with the Heresy because maybe the low boost was slightly below the H's bottom response, like a sub (maybe?). With The CW this low end reinforcement may be dominating the room.

Would tilting the CWs back about 10-15 degrees help the high end and maybe give the bass a more complicated and less resonant multipath around the room surfaces? Never had CWs, just wondering what those with experience might recommend for solutions.

Pauln

[tillmbil]

Yes, very interesting. I had a speaker manufactuer over and he informed me that going to the lower taps would tighten the bass. Crazy thing was I believe I moved them the wrong way and ended up on the 16 ohm tap. He swore that he heard better vocals and tighter bass. I will have to try moving them again. One way or the other changing the connections on a tube amp can present some sonic differences that you might like better.

[PrestonTom]

"The low end is not as accurate as the loaded horn designs and some folks find it a bit muddy or uneven"

Gotta disagree wholeheartedly with this statement. Just check the response curves on CW vs LS for a quick proof.

Michael

We will need to "agree to disagree" on this one. The loaded horn designs exploit an efficiency inherent in their design, as an "impedance transformer". One consequence is that distortion is minimized (less cone excursion & they remain in their linear range). Ported designs, exploit resonance and adding the "rear" waveform in phase with the "front". This gives an extension to the lower frequencies and helps somewhat with the efficiency. I am a fan of the Cornwalls so don't think I am beating up on them. There are many ported cabinet designs. The Cornwalls happen to be very good. However, I am real believer in the loaded designs.

The response curves are tricky. At frequencies below 200 Hz (5 ft wavelengths) or 100 Hz (10 ft wavelengths), the wavelengths are very long. So you really need to consider the speaker as apart of a "system": the Speaker-Room system. With these "big" waveforms, traditonal things that might typically might diffuse or absorb the sound, simply become ineffective. Carpet, drapes, stuffed furniture, etc are not nearly so effective as they are at higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths).

Because of this, I think folks can have very different experiences with Cornwalls (since they have different rooms with different geometries). It also suggests that the problem may be beyond swapping out different amps etc. Depending on the situation, this Speaker-Room interaction may be simply too difficult and has too much of an impact.

It is also because of this that I do not place much stock in a speaker response curve. You need to look at the speaker-room response curve. That of course will be different in your living room vs my living room.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[johnyholiday]

The loaded horn designs exploit an efficiency

inherent in their design, as an "impedance transformer". One

consequence is that distortion is minimized (less cone excursion &

they remain in their linear range). Ported designs, exploit resonance

and adding the "rear" waveform in phase with the "front". This gives an

extension to the lower frequencies and helps somewhat with the

efficiency and if it's both it's a Karlson, johny votes ;one for standing wave in room

[colterphoto1]

Tom, I agree with you that the room is very much a part of the total system response. However, given a LS vs CW in the same room, the room should affect each speaker the same, yes? Then wouldn't the speaker with the smoothest response curve GENERALLY fare better in any given room, unless the room just happened to perfectly correct any inaccuracies in the bass portion of the speakers response?

The room could explain why some people have different experiences with CW's. But a poor listening room is a poor listening room, almost no matter what speaker is in it.

I do not think that the CW is particularly more room-dependent than other designs. My experience seems to give the conclusion that the CW is one of the more room-friendly designs and it's placement options generally seem more flexible than with the Khorn certainly and the Heresy and LS to a great degree.

I stand my arguement that the CW has generally much better (deeper, smoother, punchier) bass than the LS. I think it unfair to pit either against the extreme engineering and cabinetry of the Khorn.

This is one reason my listening room has 3/4" wood paneling- sounds warm and rich.

Michael

[Klipschguy]

Cornwalls, in my experience, is a reasonably mellow speaker. Deep, punchy, clear and somewhat midrange foward to be exact. The Heresy is a much brighter speaker with limited bass compared to the Cornwalls. I would also not call the Heresy midrange foward (though reasonable). The voicing is completely different.

Going from Heresys to Cornwalls may be the problem. Having owned Cornwalls for years, I was shocked at the dissimilarity of the Cornwall's voicing vs. the Heresy's voicing when I bought a pair of Heresys. I actually padded the tweeters down to suit my taste.

Old caps can definitely rob some sparkle (at least with the old oil cans). I think yours has film and foil which may still be in spec. You may want to start with new caps. They don't need to be fancy to work well.