Bass horn ideas again. A possible build. Need criticism.

[bodcaw boy]

Here is the cabinet complete. Upside down here. Lids/Hatches complete as well.

Will need to solder the internal wires to the terminals. Don't feel like doing it tonight. Had a long day at work.

I have a rediculous amount of screws and T-nuts now. Got the Hex #10 x 32 x 1 1/2 bolts to use for the drivers.

It's gonna be a lot of fun moving this thing in the basement for testing. My Mom comes this week....maybe she will help (good one). I guess I will dolly the dern thing. Hate that.

jc,

very, very, very impressive.....

[DrWho]

Coytee, awesome avatar! A horn loaded dog!

Looking good JC. when ya gonna plug her in?

[jwc]

No criticism here dude, looking good!

Get ready for a hair blowing experience []

I AM curious though... if you drag that monster up my way and we hook it up to something... (K402?, or your own HF?) Would you want to use the same crossover numbers in the EV unit? Your own passive?

[*-)]

It wasn't until now that I looked at my last two posts. Wierd how that first image to me looks like the from panel of the jub is warped towards the bottom. I think it might be this particular computer screen.

Richard. Can't do active eventhough I was impressed with yours. My setup doesn't allow for this in the room where they will be tested. I will first just put them in a swap out for one of my dbb bass bins and use the existing network. I'm quite sure the JBL 2404 tweet won't keep up. I will eventually just RTA the JUB bass bin only to see what kind of response I get out of the corner. Will need to swap out drivers for this part as well.

I'm still not sure how I'm gonna get this in the house. My wife is pregnant and my son is 3 years old. On my own.

[DrWho]

That's what college kids are for... []

[jwc]

It is done.

In the basement. Hatches on and wired internally. Kappas mounted. I'm sorry to say I don't have a picture and I'm out of time to listen to them.

Not on call tomorrow night. Will have sometime to piddle.

Stay tuned.

[jwc]

Now let me start by explaining a few things. I put the jub bin in the corner and placed a top hat on with an Altec 511/902 and a JBL 2404. The network is a modified Dean ALK jr "type" network I threw together. The 902 and the 2404 can be attenuated on the fly with the change of taps.

The low pass filter is first order. The dbb's I have are two K33's in parallel. Therefore, the JUB with the two kappas in parallel. I just threw on my top hat and hooked up the jub bin like it was my dbb.

The first order low pass is "forgiving" in that using different LF drivers won't be a huge difference. Now don't start a war with that statement...bear with me.

Right off the bat...the network works with this setup from a crude standpoint. I have listened to Jack Johnson and Keb Mo for the last hour w/o changing the network settings.

Now. I will say that the total SPL of the Jub bin isn't as "high" as the dbb bass bin. The 902 and the 2404 are over powering the bin right now only slightly. This was somewhat of a surprise for me. I checked to see if both the kappas are working and they seem too.

The bass is fast and reminds me of a La Scala that goes lower. There is no Boom. Not noticing any time delay stuff as far as I can tell. Pleased from a first impression so far.

You need to remember...I am a "Bass head". I am used to listening to the dbb in this room. Later tonight....will adjust the nework to proportionately get more low end

So right now....it works....will need more time. The RTA won't happen until this weekend.

Here is the dbb and top hat in the corner. Looks sad.

jc

[jwc]

Here is the jub bin and top hat crude set up.

[jwc]

closer

[Daddy Dee]

JC,

That bass bin looks good in the corner. Your description of that Jubilee bass character is right on the money. Congrats on getting the project along so far. That is some sweet sound, eh?

[IB Slammin]

closer

It looks wonderful. Big (balls) time audio.

But hells-bells JC, how does it sound?

Let me guess, and ask a question at the same time.

I would assume that the LF would or should be more accurate than the dbb's. If so, does it "kick your a$$, boot in the chest" like a dbb? If not, is the increased LF accuracy a desirable compromise IYO?

tc

[jwc]

Thanks DD and Terry.

It is hard for me to speak up right now as I know I need to tinker more.

Yes, the bass is different between the two.

The Jub bin is growing on me. However, not the "Bass Machine" that my dbb's are. I brought the 902 tap down 1 db on the Jub.

I think the network I have works slightly better with the Jub setup than the dbb setup. The overall vocals do better with the jub setup.

Again the bass is very fast. Very good with kick drums. Not as noticeable with synthesized bass rolls or bass guitar like the dbb's.

Terry. You know that disc you made for me. The one you and I played really loud at Hope. Well, the second track on there has that hard drum kick (no vocals). Sounds fantastic on the jub verses the dbb. Is the "accuracy" a good trade off......hard to say right now. You are reading my mind though.

Now don't laugh here guys. Played a little rap on there like Nelly "Pimp Juice". The bass on that track is one of the "funkiest" I have heard in awhile. Doesn't shine on the Jub bin like the dbb. If anyone ever comes to my house...I'll sample it for you. I have had some anti rap folks hear this and do think it is "funky" and like it.

The SPL output of the two in comparison is very close and I can just balance back and forth with my Blueberry.

I need more time. Won't consider the Pioneer drivers until after the weekend.

jc

[mark1101]

JC,

So...you got it going finally. It looks like it came great. Fits nice and looks good in the corner too. It sounds like you have respectable sound already without much tweaking. Excellent job. I'm sure you'll optimize the network soon enough.

I gotta get over there and here all those things.

[jwc]

Yes Mark...you do need to come. I need your opinion.

This is a great battle of the bass reflex verses the bass horn.

Imagine your La Scalas your were telling me about and think of them at lower Frequency. That is what I am hearing.

Now I am doing my best not to put in all the ooohs and aaahhs....awesome.....baddda$$$$$ and all that just yet.

Yes I am surprised with the immediate integration with the existing network. There is definately a better "voice" coming from the Jub bin and that is one of the reasons I thought this existing network does "better" with the Jub set up.

There is a definate difference in sound.

My wife listened to them...A/B. Likes the "sound" of the jub setup on most songs. Very solid on liking the dbb low end punch on all the songs. She already is telling me how to make the top hat to meet her approval if I make a pair.

good night.

[IB Slammin]

................"

Terry. You know that disc you made for me. The one you and I played really loud at Hope. Well, the second track on there has that hard drum kick (no vocals). Sounds fantastic on the jub verses the dbb. Is the "accuracy" a good trade off......hard to say right now. You are reading my mind though.

Ohoooooooo! That must be Clapton playing with Joe Sample and The Crusaders.

Wow! I bet that kick drum really "pops" thru the Jub bin!

Looking forward to listening to that bad boy in Dec. (at modest SPL's[])

tc

[IB Slammin]

................"

Terry. You know that disc you made for me. The one you and I played really loud at Hope. Well, the second track on there has that hard drum kick (no vocals). Sounds fantastic on the jub verses the dbb. Is the "accuracy" a good trade off......hard to say right now. You are reading my mind though.

Ohoooooooo! That must be Clapton playing with Joe Sample and The Crusaders.

Wow! I bet that kick drum really "pops" thru the Jub bin!

Looking forward to listening to that bad boy in Dec. (at modest SPL's[])

tc

[DrWho]

JC, did you ever get a chance to run the RTA on the dbb's?

Back after the pilgrimage I wanted to write up a review, but got caught

up in school and by then it was too late to try and remember all the

finer details (if there even were any in that crappy room).

Nevertheless, one of the comments I wanted to make is that there was a

definite hole in the frequency response right around 500Hz or so. I

have no clue where you're crossing over or anything like that, but I

have a feeling the dual 15's were getting a little bit too directional

and the top section was petering out - not sure. I must confess though

that I've never been a fan of the altec horns. []

Anyways, I wonder if part of what you're noticing isn't perhaps the

difference in the 500Hz region. It'd definetly jive with your comments

about the vocals.

Nevertheless, I think you're going to end up wanting a subwoofer with

them Jubilees. However, the apparent bass response will "double" when

you get a stereo pair. You probably notice the same thing with your

dbb's.

[jwc]

Mike. I RTA'ed those things a long time ago. I never noticed any hole.

When RTAing K33's ported like a Cornwall with just a first order low pass filter, Those drivers hit very well out at 500Hz and keep going. I was actually disappointed with how far they would go. That 2.5 mH inductor hardly does anything in there. Not sure how you are noticing a 500Hz. You must have some trained ear or something. I was thinking my dbb's have too much in that area.

Will RTA later.

As far a the Farmhouse and Hope, There may have been all kinds of things coming out of that room. My dbb's sound different here than they did there.

I'll let the Altec horns and previous threads speak for them. Don't want to get into that debate here.

What my wife and I were hearing last night was just a first run. Right now, she like my dbb's better. I still need more testing and change out drivers.

I have no reason to want the dbb's to be better. Heck....I spent all this time building this jub bin. I'm just trying to find better. I have commented in several threads my appeal for the real jubilee.

[jwc]

One other thing.

I'm not interested in a subwoofer in this room. Infact....No electronics in here either except for the speakers themselves. The electronics are in another room.

Subwoofers are fine. If I wanted a sub here, I would just get or build a pair of La Scala with a sub. Great combo.

If I feel like I need my chest hairs to tingle, I can just go into my other HT room and crank my Cornscalas with two 12" HSU subs.

My idea of the "voicing" difference wasn't from a hole necessarily but vocals coming from a bass horn....not Bass reflex. This could end up being completely wrong. Now this wasn't a huge difference. This was a subtle difference that I picked up on and my wife thinks the jub may be better in that regards on some songs...not all.

Yes...in stereo with both playin....there is way more Bass. I took that into consideration.

One more thing about the farmhouse in Hope. I thought the Khorns sounded poor in the "big" room too. They actually did better in the small room.

I think at this point, I'll stop using the dbb as a comparison as probably no one is that interested in that (except Terry and I). I will go from here just talking about the jub.

After last nights experience....I may put the Pioneer drivers in there sooner than I thought. Eager to hear the difference.

jc

[seti]

How do they compare with the Jubilee in Hope?

When you are finished with them ship them to me!

Seti

1311 LouisianaSt LR, AR 72202

I will gladly pay shipping : )

[D-MAN]

JC, I think the punch you are used to from the dbb's tends to live in the upper bass range, and your current crossover is cutting it out "too soon" on the Jub?

A higher crossover point (probably needs at least a 2nd order slope) would probably help with the missing "punch". That's my guess.

You will find that the crossover is probably THE most important part of the whole thing... an active would be useful right about now, wouldn't it? I've been thinking about that for some time.

DM