Speaker Wire.. What do you recommend

[Jay481985]

Michael, your Cornwalls are safe. There is NO difference in

wire if it is properly sized for the run. Lets not even get into the VODO of

POWER cords[] There is no way that 6 feet of "premium" wire is

going to do anything to correct 50 miles of Edison distribution wires and all

the interference that everything that is connected to those wires adds. JEESH!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO But I spent 6k on my new power plug that is made of metal soooo rare that nasa cannot even use it!!! Oh the humanity [:$]

[Lascaladan]

I do not know why some people on this site have a problem when we discuss listening experiences we have. All of you tube lovers, tell me, do you hear differences in "tubes". I sure do. Place a book on top of a cd or dvd chassis(transport). Do you hear a difference? I sure do. I hear differences in wires. I hear improvements when they "break in". I leave my amplifier on all the time, because if I do not, I do not like it as much(until it warms up). I hear improvements when the edge(inner and outer)of a cd is treated with green paint(try a black magic marker). I do not need to prove a thing. I know what I hear and I know what I like. Eating a Cornwall is rediculous. Having the trained and experienced ear is not. I would never make fun of another listener if this is not something he/she could hear. Maybe this is not the site I should be on. When you are buying wire at the Depot, try a small lenght of 12 ga solid,vs multi strand. A huge difference anyone can hear(I would imagine). The bass on the solid is great, but closed in on top( I know some of you know what I am talking about). I am on this site because I love the way my Lascalas portray music. To make fun of my "ears" is not very nice. Dan

[colterphoto1]

Notice I did not make 'fun' of any of the equipment or tweaks you described.

But to insist that wire has a 'break-in' period is beyond preposterous. The molecules of whatever metal are in there do not become accustomed to the flow of energy through them, I don't care what anyone says.

Sure, use silver, platinum, zircon-encrusted wire if you want, but don't anyone to believe that it sounds better with time. Just aint gonna happen. k?

Michael

[oldbuckster]

I do not know why some people on this site have a problem when we discuss listening experiences we have. All of you tube lovers, tell me, do you hear differences in "tubes". I sure do. Place a book on top of a cd or dvd chassis(transport). Do you hear a difference? I sure do. I hear differences in wires. I hear improvements when they "break in". I leave my amplifier on all the time, because if I do not, I do not like it as much(until it warms up). I hear improvements when the edge(inner and outer)of a cd is treated with green paint(try a black magic marker). I do not need to prove a thing. I know what I hear and I know what I like. Eating a Cornwall is rediculous. Having the trained and experienced ear is not. I would never make fun of another listener if this is not something he/she could hear. Maybe this is not the site I should be on. When you are buying wire at the Depot, try a small lenght of 12 ga solid,vs multi strand. A huge difference anyone can hear(I would imagine). The bass on the solid is great, but closed in on top( I know some of you know what I am talking about). I am on this site because I love the way my Lascalas portray music. To make fun of my "ears" is not very nice. Dan

Welcome to the forum..............only 13 posts into it............No really, if you hear a difference, that's good, don't let these guys rattle you, your money, your stereo, and your ears. There are many different people, with many different opinions, some you'll like, some you won't, that's what an open forum is all about, relax, kick back, enjoy your La Scala's, and give the forum another chance, you'll like it. Hey, some on here will tell I'm an old fart, I AM....................

[Cal Blacksmith]

Dan, I know you are new here; the intent was not to offend

you. We have had this same discussion at least a dozen times since I started

here and who knows how many times before that.

If you can hear any difference, be my guest and spend as much of your money as

you would like to get the sound that you are after, that is the reason we are

all in this hobby, to get the sound we are after.

There are more snake oil salesmen in high end audio than

just about anything else. People try to sell little round stones to set on your

speakers to make the sound better. They sell risers for you to lift your wires

up off the floor so the signal won't be disturbed. The sell the IDEA that

their product will make the sound better and the mind is a powerful thing, you

WILL hear a difference when you place the pebbles on your speakers if you just

spent $5k on them and you believe that they work.

They will invent scientific reasons why their product will improve sound, they

will misapply principles of real science in related fields where there IS a

difference with conductors but in the power range and frequencies that we have

in audio the effect is so small it is indistinguishable to tell the

differences.

Wire falls into that VODO category, there is no MAGIC wire.

If the wire is of the proper size to carry the signal such as 14 gauge for most

speaker runs, there will be no improvement in the output of the speakers audio

quality if you switched between 14 gauge Home Depot zip cord or 14 gauge gold

coated silver wire with double insulation, cryogenically treated with triple wrapped

ultra fine wires over a core made up from heavier conductors placed in parallel.

[xdetroitx]

Being an electrician I can say that voltage drop for current if you figure it out breaks down to if you are under 100ft.#12 is great. If you go over a 100ft. you should upgrade to #10. Not many people with 100ft. runs for their home theater.

[Lascaladan]

Yes, I became offensive. I should not have. I am a big boy. I have spent many years in this field, both professionally and as a hobby. Not to mention I LOVE MUSIC. I know all on this forum loves music, loves Klipsch(except this 1 guy who got Bose,again to each his own), and pays to get "real". I expect many people here on the forum have not had the ability, or opportunity, to "get on loan before you buy" as I have. The debate will always continue, I suppose. I do not want to debate, but rather share with others what I hear. It is not appreciated, let alone believed, by many, and I feel sorry for all those folks. Thank you all for your responses. LOL. Dan

[jheis]

Oh My God, not another one. And buys into "magic" powercords as well.

As H.L. Mencken once said, "no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the american public."

James

[Lascaladan]

James, maybe some QTIPS might help. What is wrong with some of you?

[jheis]

Lascaladan:

You are certainly welcome to use whatever cable makes you happy. Just don't try to push it here - and don't try to tell us it makes a measurable difference. You have been proven wrong in every verifiable test that has ever been conducted.

What is "wrong with some of [us]" is that we have backgrounds in electronics and/or physics. Please read the information on Roger Russell's site. If you're still not convinced, I'd be happy to sell you some Brilliant Pebbles....

James

[DrWho]

I see a lot of people mentioning Home Depot and Lowes speaker wire...I would highly recommend NOT purchasing from those locations. The supplier for that cable uses a jacket that causes oxidation on the inside - effectively corroding the copper wire and ruining its conductivity. I have an article buried here somewhere that goes into great lengths about it (with picures - cue the ooo ahh track).

EDIT: just wanted to mention that I'm talking about the stuff labelled as "speaker wire"

I always just purchase the cheapest wire of proper guage available at the local radio shack. Here is a chart from JBL that helps you decide what guage is necessary:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/general_faq.htm

Btw, isn't there a million dollar prize for anyone that can objectively prove that they hear a difference in wire? Might be something to consider if your ears and system really are that revealing.

[PhilMays]

ummm. a million dollar prize? ummm, I heard it, now give me my million, or prove I didn't! LOL!!!!

I sure bought into it and when I did I sure participated in many "arguements" on the net. Now I think what I heard was a "justification" in spending that insane money (sure looks good though ). I believe that I tricked my mind into believing there was a difference, so, there was a difference....

The mind is a terrable thing!!!! I mean....&^%$ who knows what I mean...I'm going to go trick my mind into believing that I am going to go enjoy a second cup of coffee now.

BTW....I was unsuccessful in tricking my mind into believing King Kong was a good movie...saw it for the first time last night....that thing needed some magic for sure! LMAO

Phil

[PhilMays]

BTW Ken....My post was not "digging" at you. I truly feel people take this debate too far sometimes, on both sides.....

Unless you are doing research it really doesn't matter to the hobbiest...which is what the vast majority of us are...

good gosh...people spend insane amounts of money on other crap everyday that have far greater importance in life.

Enjoy what you like, for me I just wish I had my speaker cable money back cause I would spend it on something that would reaaly make a difference like a good micro brewed beer, or dinner for my wife in hopes of....well...you know!

Phil

[SilverSport]

Doc,

Is it a problem with Carol brand??? That is what I get from Home Depot (Extension cord, Lamp cord, Low voltage "yard light" wire) and I have never seen any signs of oxidation on my real Carol brand extension cords...or did you mean the "speaker wire" from Home Depot (clear jacketed silver and copper colored wires) than I would agree...nasty stuff (from what I purchased)

Thanks,

Bill

[Audio Flynn]

BTW Ken....My post was not "digging" at you. I truly feel people take this debate too far sometimes, on both sides.....

Unless you are doing research it really doesn't matter to the hobbiest...which is what the vast majority of us are...

good gosh...people spend insane amounts of money on other crap everyday that have far greater importance in life.

Enjoy what you like, for me I just wish I had my speaker cable money

back cause I would spend it on something that would reaaly make a

difference like a good micro brewed beer, or dinner for my wife in

hopes of....well...you know!

Phil

I purposely set up a system at the Audio Karma show this year with Home Depot speaker wire and my way too old turntable. [].

It was to showcase CHorus IIs with DeanG mods, Blueberry preamp and NOS Valves Stereo VRD amp.

Speaker wire is the last investment I would make in my system; in old age...due to senility.

[DizRotus]

Silversport,

I use Carol 14 gauge low voltage purchased from Home Depot for approximately $0.14/foot. I've never felt the need for anything fancier or more expensive. Nevertheless, I respect the right of others to spend whatever they want for whatever they want if they perceive it to be worthwhile.

EDIT: 07/30 @ 1:02 EDT

I bought a 500' roll to get it for less than $0.14/foot.

[SilverSport]

I have some of that myself....14 cents...wow!...I think it was .33 cents when I bought mine (3 months ago) but still a great price...I have used Carol branded "extension cord" (heavy jacket IMO), the low voltage appeared to have a stiffer jacket than the "lamp cord" but appeared to be a more durable jacket and the "lamp cord"...all in 14GA and I have been satisfied with all of them so far...Bill

[DrWho]

Is it a problem with Carol brand??? That is what I get from Home Depot (Extension cord, Lamp cord, Low voltage "yard light" wire) and I have never seen any signs of oxidation on my real Carol brand extension cords...or did you mean the "speaker wire" from Home Depot (clear jacketed silver and copper colored wires) than I would agree...nasty stuff (from what I purchased)

Oh sorry, I should go edit my post...I was referring to the clear jacketed "speaker wire" - I didn't know you guys were talking about using that crazy other other stuff.

[Audible Nectar]

I think we're being a bit hard on our newbie:)

I have, since my arrival and subsequent time here, discovered that there ARE differences in almost every single electrical carrying component/device/accessory you can name. Tubes (and YES, they do exhibit break in characteristics, especially power tubes), capacitors (in crossovers as well as preamps and power amps), interconnects, and yes, even mild differences in speaker cables can reveal themselves.

However, when it comes to IC's and speaker cables, the differences become more difficult to discern. In IC's, I've found that the silver Goertz cables are a bit more revealing/bright/slightly more edge/"silvery" sounding vs. my other cables here. It is VERY SLIGHT, however. Speaker cables are even less discernable - even a $1500 pair yielded only hints of changes.....and even then, I couldn't necessarily say they are "better".

When it comes to IC's and speaker cables, I tend to advise trying different, well made, yet inexpensive formulas (silver/copper/whatever else you can try). There ARE some slight sonic differences within these. However, it won't be $1500 worth of upgrade......I personally wouldn't spend more than the Blue Jean Cable offerings - I think this gets 99.999% of your desired results of the high end stuff. You can even use hardware store zipcord and not worry about it too much - as already mentioned, many here do, and have excellent systems.

Now if you want to start parts and accessory swapping, try investigating/trying out some different capacitors in your LaScalas - especially if they are old (20+ years) ones. The cap brands in my networks and tube gear made much more difference in my system sound than my ICs/speaker wires ever did. Same holds true for tube rolling - yes, mom, those NOS brand tubes really ARE better.

And please stick around! We do bark on occasion, but we don't bite - we're just a bit too much into this stuff - an affliction we all plead guilty to - happily - even if we don't always agree[].

[Lascaladan]

Newbie here. All I have been saying is to have an open mind, and, to let your ears be the judge. Measurements are mostly meaningful when running an analysis of room acoustics. Why are tube circuits and tube equipment, in almost every case, terrible in measurements, but so beautiful in "sound". Put a cheap solid state receiver on an analyzer, and measurements will probably show ok. But in the "listening", it is poor. All of you electrical wizards, the ear, for me, is my testing equipment. Unless you have tried a power cord upgrade(exchange), I feel you cannot comment. Opinions are based on listening experiments, trial and error, and quite importantly, a controlled and familiar environment, not to mention the ability to hear it all and knowing what to listen for. I am quite "strong" in mind, heart and gutts, now, on this forum. Lets have some fun! There was a thread recently, "buying the best amp" for his Klipsch. All the recommendations were based on opinions formed by members who loved the "sound" of the recommendations, not the measurements. I am not suggesting that measurements are not important. I am suggesting that "my" ears will be the judge. That is all. How about a thread on the music we all listen to. To relax to. To tap our feet to. Let us exchange attributes of our systems in conveying the musical presentations of the "artists" that we all put in our sound rooms. Something like that(I might have missed it on the forum if it was there). Anyhooooo. I am glad to be aboard. So. Now that "I can take it", let the games begin. Lascalada.