New TT isolation gadget - cool idea or hype?

[rplace]

At the very least they need some accolades for the cool-geek factor. Where are you falling on this idea Yea or Ney?

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NOBWMP1A&utm_source=email&utm_medium=special

[Cal Blacksmith]

HYPE You are still hard connected at the "frictionless guides". If you wanted the whole thing to "float" you would box the platform in on all 4 sides and use magnets to keep it centered. Then there is the problem of the cords, hey they are connected to the TT and to the stand so you can get transfer of motion there if you use those mult thousand $ fire hose thick wires to connect things up with.

EDIT: I just saw that it has GOLD plated adjustment screws and SPIKES under the adjustment screws. Just what benifit do these things have when the platform is supposed to be "floating" ?????

[rplace]

You are still hard connected at the "frictionless guides".

Then there is the problem of the cords, hey they are connected to the TT and to the stand

EDIT: I just saw that it has GOLD plated adjustment screws and SPIKES under the adjustment screws. Just what benifit do these things have when the platform is supposed to be "floating" ?????

Hmmm, I see your point. But, if you consider an air bladder or box full of sand there is way more coupling. The actual contact surface of those tiny wheels has to be very small. Perhaps a bit misleading that it is actually floating.

Cords are there no matter what method you choose...so don't see that as a factor.

I'm guessing the gold is just to make things look nice. If I were to spend $550 bucks I would expect some flash and build quality along with the alleged performance.

I have spent $500 bucks on worse things like a bar bill.[D]

[Colin]

better than a $30 VIP or a set of racquet balls - at least they have a damping factor inaddtion to isolation...

[scott0527]

I wonder if those 4 little wheels are actually touching the base or just there to hold things in place while you changes records or if you bumped the tt. I think it's a better idea than a $500 speaker cable[]

[garymd]

Looks like a decent idea. I wonder how it compares to the other air-filled sinks that are based upon similiar principles. It's not outrageously expensive compared to similiar devices like the Symposium Platform that Jazman uses or higher-end Townshend Sinks like Larry has (and what I'm using - borrowed from Larry). I'd try it if I didn't already have something in place that seems to work well assuming it could be returned and assuming my cash situation was a little better than it is right now.

[dtel]

How about the idea of magnets repelling each other,8 of them to keep the platform in place, 4 on the bottom and 4 where the rollers are in that pic, may take 4 more on top to keep it from moving back and forth, really floating.

Is there something like that out there ?

Would actually floating isolate from vibrations or make it worse ?

If nothing else it would sell because it would look cool !

[LarryC]

I guess all you can do is try it if you want to. My impression and belief are that spikes and TT feet by themselves aren't enough to fully damp a table and reduce audible resonances and grit. The question is whether the magnetic force and maybe the air cushion will sop up more of those.

Let us know if you get it -- It would be nice to compare it with something else, or even just compare with and without on your table. I'd be happy to make the trip up to add my ear's experience if you do. Unfortunately, the Townshend sinks that Gary and I use are no longer on the market and I don't see any used ones on 'Gon or ebay right now. Those are good, work very well imo.

Larry

[rplace]

Looks like more [Y] then [N] at least on the surface. I am intrigued by it...might have to run it by the finance committee (wife) or perhaps it can just show up.[6]<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The more I think of it...why not pick one up and break out the screw gun, drill press and saw. Then just swap out my motor, platter and arm to directly mount on that shelf...kidding of course.

I think I forgot to mention a week or so ago just before I went on vacation I picked up Origin Live Silver arm in great shape and a Basis Reflex clamp. They are just sitting in a box for now waiting for the "right table". Even though I have not been able to listen to the arm yet...but build quality and overall look tells me good things lie ahead.

Keep your eyes peed for a Basis 2001 or 2200 for me. Must have the Vector/Rega arm mount.

EDIT: Make the peeled...not peed[:$]

[WPM]

A big NEY! Somebody is always building a better mousetrap. It's amazing to see all the tweaks that are "supposed" to transform your system. And the costs--well, the costs are ridiculous! $500.00 plus dollars for a few planks of walnut and screws! Come on. Remember, the tweak (accessory) industry is an industry unto itself, just like the auto parts industry is to the automobile. OEM... aftermarket... you decide.

A logical person would surmise that the engineers who designed the turntables thought of all the parameters involved in countering unwanted vibrations when they designed the suspensions. Granted, the more money spent on a given turntable model yeilds a better suspension, but then each model is designed to a price point. And cheap turntables without proper suspensions (or high mass) aren't worth talking about anyway.

Don't fall for the hype. Just my 2-cents worth.

William

[scott0527]

A logical person would surmise that the engineers who designed the turntables thought of all the parameters involved in countering unwanted vibrations when they designed the suspensions.

William

I generally agree with that statement however many turntables sold today recommend right in the owners manual to place their turntables on bases isolated from various room vibrations. Some rooms vibrate a hell of lot more than others.

[WPM]

Scott0527,

You are absolutely correct. And those are exactly the turntables I referred to in the second paragraph of my message... no suspensions and no mass. Thanks.

William

[kaiser SET say]

We just went over this in another thread about someone hanging their table via chains from the roof and to me that is a better approach and much cheaper than this things because I believe as it has already been stated that the curb rollers if you will must hit the platform at some point either by pushing on the table top or an unbalanced load.

I did mention the opposing magnet theory in that thread based on another isolation platform that I have seen but that one had no rollers or guides (it basically levitated in air like the top of the line Basis table does) as I believe it stayed positioned by balancing out with 4 opposing magnets at each magnet point but don't quote me on that!

Soon I will have my suspended table platform up and I'll post pics of same. I have found all the hardware I need at Home Depot to make this and I can't wait to build it. I have used the suspended method in the past but alas I took no pictures! (what was I thinking)

Seti's house was built in the 1890's and his audio room floor literally flexes as you walk through it, it is of my belief that even the movement upon these flexes would cause this particular isolation device to hit those guide wheels. On the other hand Seti's chains would need to be about 12 foot each and that can run into some cash also. I think after he sees mine he will end up going that route because it will still be far cheaper than the aforementioned platform.

just my .02

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[jazman]

At the very least they need some accolades for the cool-geek factor. Where are you falling on this idea Yea or Ney?

http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NOBWMP1A&utm_source=email&utm_medium=special

The term "isolation" is often used, but seldom defined as to what form/s of isolation it is providing. Is it providing isolation from foot fall, (floor born), sonic vibrations, (air born), component vibration, (motors, transformers,) etc? The best I can determine is, it addresses floor born vibrations.

This unit uses magnets to provide it's concept of floating the shelf the turntable rest upon. There are magnets on the underside of the shelf and frame that maintain an air cushion so the shelf does not rest on the frame. The white rollers, are attached to the shelf itself to prevent the shelf moving horizontally forward or backward. How effective it is, I have not idea, though as a shelf, it appears that some of it's performance capability will be linked to the additional stand upon which it rests.

I believe TT isolation issues are more complex than "floor born" vibration, though it is the most obvious detriment. I would consider the $500 better spent toward more comprehensive addressing of the issues.

Klipsch out.

[jazman]

" ... My impression and belief are that spikes and TT feet by themselves aren't enough to fully damp a table and reduce audible resonances and grit. The question is whether the magnetic force and maybe the air cushion will sop up more of those. "

I believe and agree with Larry that TT performance can be improved by addressing more than the issues of damping, but "audible resonances" and "grit". Symposium's Ultra platform is "high end". Larry uses Townsend's high end product, The Sink.

Klipsch out.

[fini]

I assume the magnets are far enough away to not affect a MC cartridge.

[LarryC]

Great question, Gregg. Magnets strong enough to float 60 lbs. and they wouldn't affect magnets in either an MM or MC, or the table or the arm? I finally saw the little wheels that others mentioned, inside what looks like a drawer runner, and [EDIT:] I can't see how this pretty device would have much isolation or damping ability.

Rich, I think at that level you should also look at Symposium. Bright Star also offers some isolation products that resemble the Townshend design, but I don't recall anyone writing about them.

[jacksonbart]

what about a really small waterbed.

[pauln]

Which is it - isolation or conduction of the vibrations?

Always an interesting topic, but I've never gotten a straight answer on the theory of operation of spikes. I've seen where it is claimed that the little points serve to isolate the chassis (keep the self created vibrations in and keep out those from outside), but I've seen where the claim is that the points serve to concentrate the pressure to form a path for the vribrations to be drained off or damped out... does their conical shape make this one-way like a diode so the outside vibs don't get into the table?

[kaiser SET say]

Pauln, I believe spikes and cups especially made out of brass do decrease (equipment)vibration for the simple fact of the contact area but a spike is never going to stop bumps, floor flex or airborn like bass waves.

The documentation I recieved with my braa footers under my Naut. 804's says exactly what you state about the conical shape and material working together to dissipate vibrations to and fro (yes, I may be one of those born eveyday types who knows!)

I do know this I have been addicted to this hobby for 39 years now and the spike cone has been one of the longest running tweaks I know of[]