Jeff Matthews Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Trey, I just saw your acknowledgment to Al's "Goodbye." Good for you. I thought the so-called "resignation letter" was a bit over the edge. Kind of like a "High and Mighty" approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 While Al's approach is not without reproach, it is also obvious that the days when PWK gladly accepted engineering insight from outside the company have passed. It looks apparent that the Jubilees are a work in progress, and there is a filter design engineer who offers gratis help, and brings to the table a CV that has documented filtering work, inclusive to Klipsch networks. Odd is the kindest expression I would use for this impasse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Dave, I see where people might want to credit Al for trying to help. But sometimes, people don't want help. They have their own designs in mind, and that's it. If you told me how to decorate my kitchen, I might politely reject the advice. If you want to debate me over it, I'll debate back - but only so far. In any event, I'll decorate the way I see fit. If you want to decorate my kitchen, buy my house - it's for sale. My comments have nothing to do with Al's ideas - whether they are great or not. It's just that if Klipsch is not inclined to incorporate them, so be it. Al needs to find somebody else who's interested, or he needs to build his own speakers. He could certainly have dealt with the rejection without declaring the earth should be scorched and salt thrown on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 The Jubilee is really intended to be used with an active network. I don't understand all the hubbub about a passive network for it. That alone is outside of Klipsch engineer's design philosophy for the speaker. I trust the experts. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 While Al's approach is not without reproach, it is also obvious that the days when PWK gladly accepted engineering insight from outside the company have passed. It looks apparent that the Jubilees are a work in progress, and there is a filter design engineer who offers gratis help, and brings to the table a CV that has documented filtering work, inclusive to Klipsch networks. Odd is the kindest expression I would use for this impasse. "Odd" only if the proposed ideas were better... [][6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Jeff, I agree with your context, and have no argument with you. I do find it strange that Klipsch will use an EV crossover on a "flagship" PWK design, and have two or three active/passive crossover designs floating, a couple of Jubilee bin designs, and rejects criticism/comments/suggestions from a respected forum member summarily out of hand. The manner of interaction on the Klipsch side illustrated (to me) that there will be little advance with the Jubilee line. I was targeting a Jubilee puchase sometime in the next two years, but now have zero interest. As you suggested, a build is possible. The Onkens look interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Were you planning on buying the speakers or the attitude? If I liked the speakers enough, I'd buy them - not because the maker was open-minded, but because the speakers were good. Ideas get rejected every day. C'est la vie! Remember the story about how Fred Smith (the FedEx founder) got a "C" in Harvard for his thesis proposing the FedEx hub idea? Some people beat the curve; others don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 The Jubilee is really intended to be used with an active network. I don't understand all the hubbub about a passive network for it. That alone is outside of Klipsch engineer's design philosophy for the speaker. Well, the latter is not totally true. Roy did design a passive for it, and the schematic was posted here on forum several times. Not everyone likes messing with the active stuff, and some don't like the sound of active filters in signal path either. What Al said in that thread was wrong to say, and Trey was right come down on him. Al said some other things he shouldn't have said, but that's what happens when a guy who has spent almost a decade of his life doing what Klipsch should have been doing -- feels he's being treated as an imbecile. Al gave us the first network with high quality parts that could be used to drive these speakers without bleeding the ears out, and it will be Al, not Klipsch -- that will get credit, and be rememebered for getting a Tractrix midhorn into our Heritage top hats. Of course, when Klipsch finally gets around to doing it there will be much fanfare. He didn't put the letter up on this site, he put it up on his. He posted a link to it at another site. He wanted to offer an explanation, I think that's O.K.. People who have been here for years, invest in the relationships, and then just leave -- well, I don't know what to think about that. At this point, I think everyone should let this one die down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 For those who want to re-live how this started. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/783797.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Roy did design a passive for the Jubilee and it sounded good. He designed and tested and we listened to all in the same day at the Hope pilgrimage this year. Imagine how differently all this might have gone if ALK had been present in the lab with Roy when he designed and built and tested the crossover. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Well, that thread is the beginning of Al's meltdown, but there were several threads and postings by Al asking Roy direct questions without response. This ended up being a misunderstanding and was pretty much straightened out in the end with apologies from both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Roy said he would talk to him again in 6 months if his attitude got right. Still hasn't been 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Many years ago taking your design down to Hope for Paul to audition was welcome...No one went into a snit if he rejected your idea...Things are different now...Letting your ego get in the way then bad mouthing the hoste is not good manners.....Al is a great filter designer, He,l survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 The Jubilee is really intended to be used with an active network. I don't understand all the hubbub about a passive network for it. That alone is outside of Klipsch engineer's design philosophy for the speaker. I trust the experts. Michael Let's try that again. The Jubilee is really intended to be used with an active network. Key word intended, as in it was originally designed to be used in commercial settings with the EV active network. That Roy later designed a passive network for a few home installations does not make that the INTENDED system. Al was rude and arrogant on numerous recent posts. Good riddance, I don't care how good his engineering is/was. Geesh.... this is getting to be no fun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Ive always favord active networks. The Jubilee now is the tweekers dream. I feel as drivers improve (sutch as the revolutionary JBL new Everest 476 driver) This can be a new era in two way design. "Hot diggidy damn". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Many years ago taking your design down to Hope for Paul to audition was welcome...No one went into a snit if he rejected your idea...Things are different now...Letting your ego get in the way then bad mouthing the host is not good manners.....Al is a great filter designer, He,l survive. Hmm, but an idea rejected after being heard and evaluated isn't the same as being rejected outright -- at least he let you in and listened. And yes, bad mouthing the host isn't good manners. I think Al was trying his version of The Persistant Widow out on Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 "Let's try that again. The Jubilee is really intended to be used with an active network. Key word intended, as in it was originally designed to be used in commercial settings with the EV active network. That Roy later designed a passive network for a few home installations does not make that the INTENDED system." Better. I can agree with that. Al was rude and arrogant on numerous recent posts. Good riddance, I don't care how good his engineering is/was. Yeah, painful reading -- especially for me. Imagine having logged over a hundred hours on the phone with him and knowing how selfless and encouraging he is. Geesh.... this is getting to be no fun... Nope, not even a little bit. I'm deeply sad over the whole affair. I miss John Warren too. Him and Al can't stand each other, but this place rocked when they were both in here slugging it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Michael, it can be fun. Old time country manners can solve just about anything, but the forum is getting real squirrely at this time. I guess I'm just cranky because I can remember a skinny old coot with a bolo tie stop by our friend's house, introduce himself, and spend almost an hour visiting. He told us we were well on our way to understanding how his speakers worked, and he offered more encouragement than anyone else I've ever worked under/for. PWK had a bullshit button he flipped with elan, but if he thought something could be gained, he sought a partnership. Roy and Al have both been rude, and to the forum's credit, some members have sought to temper the waters. I also see the "good riddance" and see civil discourse and partnerships parting ways, as is the case for my not seeking a set of Jubilees. I'm sorry to see Al depart, along with multiple other knowledgable Klipsch owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Maybe I should be miffed because Roy didn't follow my advice and make the Jubilee a.........Model 19. ;-) Yeah, quite a nerve on that Roy fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 People often act very different in person or over the phone than they do behind a keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts