Amp shootout - Teac chimp amp vs. McIntosh MC 250

[sheltie dave]

Eric, don't get me wrong- I LIKE the Teac. If I had not picked the MC250 up for a song, and have it refurbished fro a total of $30 more than I have in the Teac, then there would not even be a comparison. I call it a chimp amp because Liam misspoke trying to say chip amp, hence the chimp.

As Dean noted, it doesn't deal well with a set of 2.8 ohm nominal speakers, and I can hear it struggling til it gets enough *** behind it to drive the RF7s. Mine also is bone stock, and most anyone would label an amp comparison between a 35 wpc $100 amp and a $800 60 wpc amp to be an inequitable comparison. As a $100 weekend fling, the Teac delivers far more than expected.

Richie, what kind of Cabernet? We had a bucket of stout with the Mac![]

[sfogg]

Dean,

"Read the TEAC manual. It doesn't do well with things that drop much below 6 ohms. With a minimum impedance of 2.8 ohms, the RF-7 isn't the best candidate for that amplifer."

Good point about the impedance. That Tripath chip is current limited when they hit low impedance loads so it might be putting out much less then its rated power at 8 ohms. By there 8 ohm rating there is only about 3dB of a difference between the Teac and the McIntosh.

I'll have to test a Teac on the bench to see how they react in that situation.

"These amps also hit a brick wall pretty fast on the power end of things."

Take out those lossy crossover components and run the drivers at their full sensitivity... plenty of power then.

Shawn

[cjgeraci]

Okay, Dave. Time to up the ante and still keep them shining. I have the extra QSC PLX 1202 on my center Belle. Just loan me another amp, and we can fire up the 200 watt/Merlin/Dean-modded RF-7s to remind us what that combo sounds like.......[H]

And see how the QSC compares to the Teac and the Mc, considered I payed $375 on ebay for the QSC.[][]

Just for the heck of it.......

Carl.

[pauln]

I tried the Teac for about a month with LaScalas and vinyl. "Uninvolving" is a good summary of my thoughts. Compared to my SETs the sound was deeper and higher and louder, and plenty clear and powerful - but alas, yes, uninvolving. No soul, no sense of musical conversation with my heart. I removed the extra board to see if that might be pulling some unused power - no difference.

Small, low heat, fool proof and convienient, and high tech - these will be popular... like CDs.

[TBrennan]

Back in our Chicago condo I had a hi-fi set-up in a BIG dining room; Dynaco PAS-3 and the Teac chip amp driving Altec 605As. Sony DVD player and Thorens record player as sources.

I found the sound very involving: excellent clarity and tonal balance and the biggest wrap around image I've heard, a huge soundfield that extended far past the speakers and around to the sides and back.

Dynamics were never tested, neighbors upstairs and down.

Now I'm using the Teac to power my Model 19s in the HT room of my house and I'm not getting the outstanding image, no doubt due to the smaller room and perhaps the Denon HT receiver used as the preamp. I should take the Teac downstairs to power my Heath-Altecs, that's a huge room and the imaging is very good with a Fisher 500B and also was with a Jolida model something or other.

[Erik Mandaville]

"No soul, no sense of musical conversation with my heart. "

What I find and have learned is that people's hearts and amps (or any component) don't all speak the same language. Some have also used lower power but otherwise extremely musical amplifiers with lossy crossovers, and then described the resulting unsatisfactory sound as an amp problem. IMO, that's only looking at half the equation.

Dave: I understand what you're saying. I have described the Teac as perfect, almost to a fault myself. I have found that I sometimes need to adjust to the sound of a new component, and can learn to appreciate its merits -- which for me has nothing whatever to do with its physical weight or other such attributes. BTW: You never referred to it as a 'Toy.' Others here have, though..

I'm also a real fan of SET amplifiers, which are probably more different in terms of sonic presentation (when compared to the Teac) than a pair of higher power PP amps.

The Teac and a good tube preamplifier is a marvelous combination, IMO. Same goes for the Teac and crossoverless Lowthers, which now constitute the L and R channels of our HT. The Klipschorns and direct-couple Moth 2A3 is a match made here on earth, and is superb.

Erik

[Parrot]

Much of the attraction to chimp amps is unrelated to music:

"Oh, they're so little!" (Cute factor.)

"Oh, they're so cheap!" (Bargain factor.)

"Aren't they amazing!" (Worship of science factor.)

Chimp amps are great for spec-heads but not even in the running for audio lovers.

[stormin]

I don't believe QSC falls into the chimp amp category. I believe its more of the gorilla type that Craig and A. Flynn refer.[] Will you be offering those in kit form or preassembled Craig?[]

I normally would agree with Craig on the weight argument but these lightweight QSC's have either changed or warped my mind.

[Painful Reality]

What I find and have learned is that people's hearts and amps (or any component) don't all speak the same language. Some have also used lower power but otherwise extremely musical amplifiers with lossy crossovers, and then described the resulting unsatisfactory sound as an amp problem. IMO, that's only looking at half the equation.

I'm not sure I understand. Maybe it's time for another food preference analogy?

[sfogg]

For those that have the Teac and want to try a cheap little experiment pick up a package of these:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062290&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&cp=2032058.2032230&fbn=Type%2FPower+Resistors&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032267&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FPower+Resistors&fbc=1&categoryId=2032267&kwCatId=2032058&kw=resistor&parentPage=search

at your local Radio Shack. Wire one into the positive speaker cable to each speaker.

Listen to it like this and see what you think.

For the non-negative feedback SET users perhaps try something like these instead:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062288&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&cp=2032058.2032230&fbn=Type%2FPower+Resistors&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032267&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FPower+Resistors&fbc=1&categoryId=2032267&kwCatId=2032058&kw=resistor&parentPage=search

Shawn

[Deang]

LOL!!

[Painful Reality]

You're too kind.

In my case I did think about a sandwich. The one you will find squashed on the bottom of an American Airline lunch bag if you're travelling in cattle class. Some seems to enjoy though.

[jwc]

I was under the impression that the MC250 sounded better than the MC2100. Yes I understand the power difference. Would you consider two MC250's mono vs the MC2100?

[TBrennan]

The worst sandwich I ever had was one of these "hot brown" things they do down here in Kentucky.

The Shawnees must have invented it to bedevil the Long Knives forever.

[NOSValves]

For those that have the Teac and want to try a cheap little experiment pick up a package of these:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062290&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&cp=2032058.2032230&fbn=Type%2FPower+Resistors&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032267&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FPower+Resistors&fbc=1&categoryId=2032267&kwCatId=2032058&kw=resistor&parentPage=search

at your local Radio Shack. Wire one into the positive speaker cable to each speaker.

Listen to it like this and see what you think.

For the non-negative feedback SET users perhaps try something like these instead:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062288&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&cp=2032058.2032230&fbn=Type%2FPower+Resistors&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032267&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FPower+Resistors&fbc=1&categoryId=2032267&kwCatId=2032058&kw=resistor&parentPage=search

Shawn

Shawn,

Very interesting what advantage would these inline resistors have with a chip amp?

Craig

[sfogg]

Craig,

"Very interesting what advantage would these inline resistors have with a chip amp?"

Basically they would in effect raise the output impedance of the amps with the potential attendant changes to the sound that that could bring. For example part of why some think SS amps sound lean compared to tube amps (or vice versa, flabby compared to tight depending upon ones own point of view) is due to differences in output impedance.

I was simply curious if that might alter some peoples opinion of the sound or not. This is just based on the guess that the output impedance of the Teac is fairly low, digitals tend to be, but I'll measure/calculate that some time to be sure.

The resistor thing isn't really anything specific to the chip amps, it can be done with regular SS or whatever too.

It is just a little easier to do this with horns since so much less power is going to go through the resistors so they don't have to be terribly large big power resistors to play around with this.

Shawn

[CaptnBob]

Do amps have to be large and heavy in order to produce 'good' sound?

Yes. Yes they do.

[maxg]

Well......there's chimp amps and chip amps but if you are going to evalutate the breed it is only fair to look at decent examples:

Yamaha MX-D1. In conjuntion with a nice tube pre-amp (I am using the Klimo) this produces a sound I do not think anyone could identify as being digital. It also does not suffer from inadequate power as some of the quoted models do - nor does it have any problems with impedance falls down to 2 ohms in the loudspeaker it is driving. They say the sound quality does not change from 16 to 2 ohms which would make this rather a unique amp IME.

Will happily drive any speaker in my experience to date.

[mike stehr]

Reminds me of my old MX-1.

I would guess that you can't get that amplifier in the US.

[Erik Mandaville]

"

Much of the attraction to chimp amps is unrelated to music:

"Oh, they're so little!" (Cute factor.)

"Oh, they're so cheap!" (Bargain factor.)

"Aren't they amazing!" (Worship of science factor.) "

Nah, It's the other way around, I think.

"Oh, they're so heavy, they MUST be good" (weight correlation with performance factor)

"Oh, they're very expensive, that confirms outstanding performance." (hi-end-audio-brain-wash-factor)

"Aren't they amazing -- look at all the glowing tubes" (worship of older-science factor). I think tubes are pretty neat myself, actually.

Erik