DrWho Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Everytime you run the tape over the heads you are imparting new noise onto the tape. It also brings down the maximum amplitude stored on the tape (because it wears off some of the magnetic flux) - both contribute to raising the noise floor. Is it a huge deal? No way....but I think the "audiophile perfection" being advertised is relatively a bit extreme. Heck, even age will impart noise. That's why I liked the Linn approach more...once digitized, the digital recording can be preserved forever. Will it sound the same? I would argue "yes" as long as it was done properly. But that's a pretty large caveate. Put any engineer into a studio and tell him to make it sound perfect and he's going to tweak away until all the life is sucked out. [6] When I worked in the tape studio, we would throw out submasters every week...and we were only making about 100 copies a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 No matter how close you match to a perfect test tone. Your always adding noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted February 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2007 No matter how close you match to a perfect test tone. Your always adding noise. Maron, I agree, generation to generation will add nosie to each sucessive generation. My question was, why, if you start with tape 1 and dub a copy (Copy 2a), and then dub another another copy off of tape 1 (Copy 2b), in other words two sub-masters from the same master, why will tape 2b have more noise, or sound different, then tape 2a, or will it? Dr. Who may have answered it, but I am not sure of the reasoning. Is it in theory that more noise is added to a source master (tape 1) each time it is played, or in practice? Does that mean that a tape gets noiseier and noisier each time it is played until the point that it is unplayable? I could see that in theory, but not in practice. 3M did testing on their tapes used in broadcasting and played, erased, recorded, and then played a tape 10,000 times with the claim that there was no differencing in recording quality. Ampex adopted these same claims and used them in their sales documents. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Some where in one of my "Tape Op" mags, was a article about the Beatles shuttling back & forth on a master tape edit and they could hear the difference after a time.. They felt tape oxide was not robust and signal was being compromised. Now i dont know how many times they did this....Ill try to find the article. The therery being if Oxid is harder than heads or heads harder than oxide you have a bearing. And will have less whear. (bronze v steel). Ive never worn my tapes thin. Test signal is still strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 My Ampex 407/456 tapes are 30 years old and while my ears have shed oxide, the tapes sound great. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Travis....I,m sending over an Astronaut lady to pick up that Ampex MR 70....Dont P*** her off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hey Maron, how 'bout this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Ampex-Tube-4-Channel-Reel-to-Reel-TapeRecorder_W0QQitemZ190079778301QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15000QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted February 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2007 Travis....I,m sending over an Astronaut lady to pick up that Ampex MR 70....Dont P*** her off. Dang, I am going to have to buy a gas mask just to go out to my car so I don't get pepper sprayed. I am ,more worried about the plastic garbage bags he is bringing. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Travis....The plastic bags are for, Dice em up, slice em up then shake & bake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Shelti......That early Ampex 300 series was a real work horse...New Jersey is quite a ride for pick up...Restoration could be done, Parts can be found... Remember Record Exchange had a Ampex 440...That i passed up...As you remember some one took a hammer to that one....But It too could have been restord..But they wanted too much money for it., to start. All Im looking for is a clean play back (2 track) unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast996 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 MR70 restoration Reply Delete Edit Favorites Contact Hi Travis, Our restoration of the rare MR70 is shown below the Ampex was in poor working order.It took 4 months of tweeks and TLC. I saw you had one of these also as I think there are only 40-50 working units out there worldwide in studios or collectors hands. You are probably correct as 75 seems like a number that was mfg with maybe 50 complete decks worldwide remaining. These decks were overbuilt and are heavy workhorses listen to the relays during switching .This old girl will last for years. Something that a Studer 820 can't boast I know i have one of those too! Enjoy, Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I have an ear for those master tapes myself, I have a subscription to The Tape Project a couple nice modded decks and some other nice tapes to go along with the rest. My Studer is matched to a De haviland Model 222 tape pre, and my Otari is matched with a Bottlehead Tube repro tape pre both are tube units. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast996 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Hi Jay, Very nice setup how is the 222 matched to your Studer A810? Do you like it compared to the stock Studer electronics? I was thinking of going that way on my A820 there has been a lot of talk on the What's Best Forum about Kara's amp. Would like know your thoughts on 222. Thanks, Gary http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?679-New-Tube-Tape-Preamp-out-soon Here are the projects I am working on now with my Ampex 350 440 MR70 http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?1374-Ampex-electronics-for-the-best-possible-sound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast996 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Hey Jay I just noticed you already post on that forum.The 222 you were impressed with at that time you had just got it.....still so? Best, Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Gary, It is connected to my Studer by direct head outs, meaning the signal is taken directly from the playback head and sent to the model 222. I also have a switch installed so I can go back to the internal electronics should I choose but, I never do!!! Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hey Jay I just noticed you already post on that forum.The 222 you were impressed with at that time you had just got it.....still so? Best, Gary Gary,I am still very impressed with it, when you get the right tubes in it to match your system's synergy it is awesome!!! Having the ability to adjust the high frequency's from the front panel makes it a breeze, and you can dial it in however you like it!!! Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 20, 2011 Gary, That is an incredibly beautiful job. I am so glad to see another one saved! Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast996 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Hi Travis, 1/4" 2 track nearly finished , a year and a half restoration .... I'm finally getting the MR70 done. The head stack is off to JRF so just waitng now and finishing the restoration. Enjoy, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So how are they going to address the degredation of the original master everytime they record another batch? The Linn Records approach seems more promising....but why did they pick the WMA format??? Exactly my thoughts when I saw this. And add to that the deviations in recording and playback heads (and even electronics) - no two are exactly a like in frequency response or distortion or phase characteristics, among other things, and all these things are additive from generation to generation. That was one of the initial problems when CD was first introduced. We had copies of the copies of the copy, etc. before it actually got to the CD. And then of course analog tape never degrades over time (NOT). After having recorded and produced over 40 recordings myself (which you can actually buy and have even been available in some record stores) I can tell you as a matter of fact that none of them, even when reproduced as one to one in-real-time copies, analog or digital, ever sound exactly like the original master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn51 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I have solved the orig master at home problem. I'm using a 3m m64 which I recod live direct through 2 electrodyne 712 preamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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