lech Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Oldbuckser Suppliers to the mid range and treble range (2A3) Boost by 4x300B in the lower range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I get lost in the technical talk............but, my eyes tell me that's a nice set-up.....Khorns to boot.........Lucky Man........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lech Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 It is not complicated at all. Bi amping . All are Triods from the years when Kllipsch was born. Its my ..hobby ,Better reproducing of sound is not possible. Call it Krell,ML and what so ever but this combination is outstanding. BR Lech sorry for my Swenglisch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Very nice setup Lech and I like your Swenglish[] Wait till the Parrot gets a load of your all SET rig[] So you have the 2A3's on the top side and 2 set's of SET 300B's driving your bottom end eh? I bet it does sound very nice indeed[] Prosit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lech Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Yes, that the way I am listining on my Khorns So you have the 2A3's on the top side and 2 set's of SET 300B's driving your bottom end eh? I think we / I am taking this topic out of its ... But I must say that KLIPSCH will be represented here i SWEDEN soon by the best dealer we have here in the Ice beers land, (bear) BR Lech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Mine just came. I'm going to let them get to room temp before fireing them up and not come to conclusions for a day or 2 for break-in time. THEY HAVE CORDS! I didn't know that. They're all ready to plug into the crossover. I'm actually thrilled about this. Gonzp - I have my khorn lid on the floor and held it up to where I think it would land and there's very little clearance. I could see installation a PITA if the lid isn't removed. I tried removing a standard k-77-m last week via the back and almost ended up in tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannegard1 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 LECH i have bobs crites tweeters and they sounds wery good Bob have also made me some crossovers new ak-3 whith good caps in and he has made me aa-crossovers but the best sound from my klipschorn is the type a-crossovers whith the 0,5mh coil and his tweeters that is the best sound for me sorry for my swedenglish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 no need to apologize...clear as crystal...thanks for sharing! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Bill, you have a PM. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Larry, responded to... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Dean - "All of those tweeters are about the same in sensitivity. If you want "more tweeter" then you are either going have to EQ or go to a slightly more sensitive tweeter. Some actually run something like the JBL 2404 with no attenuation. Really though, you are running those squakwers right now at about the same level as a Type A on tap 3, and you should be hearing quite a bit of tweeter." "Look at all these posts, they are all over the map: The tweeter's too loud. The tweeter's not loud enough. The tweeter's just right. I assure you it's not the tweeters." "I think all of these tweeters are within 2dB of each other -- and that anything else people are hearing is from differences in room acoustics and recorded material. I suppose a couple of you could be half deaf too.:)" Dean - Has it occurred to you that various problems might not be "room acoustics or recorded material"? And that 'only a few dbs either way' can indeed mean quite a bit even to the point where it's a 'real' problem with someones audio and shouldn't be poopoo'd? Or that maybe those who get a different result than they 'should', aren't crazy, don't like horns and are in denial, or deaf? Often, It seems to me when people have the b*lls to voice an opinion here, their problem is waved off/dismissed - pegged as not a 'real' problem. Like hitting "the easy button". It's peppered throughout the forum. I'm not necessarily saying this to you Dean, but ..... I wish there was a bit more of listening to the people, respecting what they're saying, and maybe an issue is more real than you might think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 could it be differences in how we hear things too??? I mean beyond the male/female hearing (although that could be it as well)...how can some listen to these Tweeters and say they are the bees knees...others say they are ok...still more say they are too forward...some claim not loud enough while others claim too loud??? Perhaps as simple as just how each of us hear things??? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I like very much the CT-125 in my LaScala's. I could not get the CT-125's to mount inside of my K-Horn's though I did set them up on top of the k-horns, and listenes to them that way. They were mounted higher than the stock location of the tweets so I had to adjust my listening position. I put the round magnet K-77's back in. I think that I am going to go back and start playing with my ALK Jr. settings. Only problem, this takes weeks to get a good impression of each setting. Good point. I have only changed mine once so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 could it be differences in how we hear things too??? I mean beyond the male/female hearing (although that could be it as well)...how can some listen to these Tweeters and say they are the bees knees...others say they are ok...still more say they are too forward...some claim not loud enough while others claim too loud??? Perhaps as simple as just how each of us hear things??? Bill No (I contend) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 various problems might not be "room acoustics or recorded material"? And that 'only a few dbs either way' can indeed mean quite a bit....I agree with this. I and another forum member recently went to a third forum member's house to try to sort out brightness problems (I think we'll eventually post on this). While we made some good progress by fiddling with squawker levels and internal phasing changes, the tweeter was still too hot in our opinion in spite of everything being wired correctly in the crossover. We didn't think it was room acoustics, as it didn't change with loudness or how close we were or where we were located relative to the speakers, and the imbalance sounded the same no matter which recording we used, ranging from Ambassador Satch to E. Power Biggs playing Bach's F Major Toccata. Lisa, your reaction to an AK-4 setup would be interesting, if you had a chance to hear one. While some feel there are better alternatives, I'm pretty comfortable with it. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Larry - and that issue might not even be the tweeters fault. Might be the crossover. And only those with extra crossovers, horns, speakers, testing equipment - might be able to peg it as such, and how many have such a luxury? I just feel really bad for those that have issues and are told it's their room, ears, or the big one.... gear. Especially tubes. Larry - I just got a pair of ak-3 khorns fired up in the main position last night. Gosh, it's sure doing many things right. Like this one song has the this little bell in it that's hit once during the whole song. Made me smile. But I'm having a lack of bass which I need to address. I 'think' the ak-4 crosses over differently? I would like to hear other crossovers other than the 3 I have here right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Larry - I'd be very interested in reading a thread about this 'brightness' experience you guys had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I have a hard time accepting that there is any significant difference between any of these 105dB rated tweeters. This would include Bob's, as well as the different versions of the K-77. We do know the older alnico version might be slightly less sensitive due to some possible loss of magnetic strength over time. We also know that particular tweeter doesn't quite reach as high as the others -- but it's in the ballpark with the others regardless. I said a possible 2dB difference, mostly allowing for variences in the manufacturing. OTOH, I'm not the tweeter guy around here, Bob is -- and I'm sure he's probably run across some freaks during his time of working with them. 2dB is certainly audible, but not something I think would cause someone to want cover their ears with the couch cushions. As for the CTS-125, it might have different dispersion characteristics, and some of what people are reporting might be related to that. Bill brings up an important point relating to how people hear, and we certainly don't want to discount that. Going back through this thread tells me there is very little difference acoustically between the tweeter filter output of the ALKJr and Type AA. This alleviated any concerns on my part that there might be an issue with the ALKJr's I built for Lisa. Bob's plot shows the 'bump' in the response of the AA, which is correlated by Lisa's RTA measurements. Klipsch used that filter from 1971 to 1983 and a lot of people like it. Ironically, those that don't prefer it say they want something with "more highs", "better highs", "more detailed highs", etc. Yes, Bob's plot shows elevated response of the AA around the crossover point, but the Type A has twice the energy going to it an octave below that. To appreciate this difference it helps to build the various tweeter filters on a separate board, run just the tweeter -- and listen. Each available network changes the sonic signature of the speaker, and with those who have tried the different types tend to develop strong preferences over time. Everyone doesn't like the same thing, it's just that simple. Also, fully horn loaded speakers by their very nature don't have the smoothest of frequency responses -- and regardless of the network used, there are always some anomolies in the responses. Some are bothered by them and some aren't. You can add a dozen elements into the filter to pull down and lift response (smooth the response), but I think it just sucks the life out of the sound. Most of us like horns for the dynamics and hair trigger transients, and are willing to trade a smoother response for the quick get up and go and transparency afforded by low part count filters. Some people using those type filters sometimes feel they want to "tame" things, and this is done with attenuation -- which really just amounts to changing the balance of the speaker. A network should provide reasonably flat response across the range of the speaker, and shouldn't be thought of something that should provide a cure all for everything in the sound that bugs you. Crossovers are an important part of the system -- but they're just one part. Personally, I think all of the available filters are solid designs and capable of excellent sound. If you've tried everything reasonably possible and you're still not satisfied with sound, then you have to decide if you want to up the ante or not. No network or piece of gear can bring to the table what better horns and drivers do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 ...even with the different tweeters, squawkers and woofers...how about the "synergy" of the different versions???...as they relate to the crossovers???...I think this is more simple than we give it credit...women hear different than men, respective hearing loss or enhancement...then there is the room treatments, synergy with equipment... I do think that Klipschorns with say VRDs and JuicyMusicAudio (be it peach or BlueBerry) shold sound at least similar, yes??? I hear differences in my Klipschorns with different equipment...EICO HF-81, McIntosh MAC 1900, McIntosh MA-6200 (two different generations of McIntosh), Nakamichi STASIS (Nelson Pass) and NOSValves VRDs and JuicyMusicAudio BlueBerry (tried both Mki and current "standard" BlueBerrys)...but to me these differences are much more subtle with the biggest difference to me being the less fatiguing (to me) Tube sounds...still all very good (to me...) Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Dean said: "If you've tried everything reasonably possible and you're still not satisfied with sound, then you have to decide if you want to up the ante or not. No network or piece of gear can bring to the table what better horns and drivers do." I think Dean's analysis is accurate. It sounds as though Lisa is chasing her tail with the various crossovers, and the one constant are the same drivers and horns (albeit some different models - but the sonic characteristics are not that different in the K400/55 and K77 family). Better horns and/or drivers would be a different path and may be (or not) the answer. I was not truly happy until I went that route. But each person hears different things. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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