maxg Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Does you system have a perfect volume? By that I mean the point at which you feel you are getting all the music there is to have - but it is not so loud that it is starting to distort (possibly ear rather than system related)? Mine does - and it is a bit of a PITA because it is just slightly louder than I can listen with the rest of the house asleep. On those rare ocasions, though, when everyone else is out - oh boy does it sound good. Related to this - anyone know why this happens? Further, anyone know a good way to reduce that perfect volume level? About 5 dB would do it for me nicely. I have tried simply sitting closer to the system and this works to a point (not quite as good as turning the volume up) but dragging the recliner over the rug aint the easiest thing in the world to do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Built the music room with double wall thickness and insulated interior walls as well to give the rest of the family some quiet. Have found that I like to get the volume right the first time because it never sounds as good when I have to turn it down. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Max, Chuck...I am with you...I try to listen to music quiet...I am missing so many things (to my ears anyway)...but I turn it up a bit...Eureka!...that's it...as long as no one is over...no complaints......I think the Klipschorns need a little volume to really sing... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Hey Max, this is completely related to room acoustics...not sure if that's the answer you wanted to hear or not, but that's gonna be the only way to tackle the problem. I'll propose that when the system is too quiet, you aren't able to build up any form of a reverberant field because all of the longer order reflections (the reflections that you actually want) get lost in the noise floor. This is especially bad for khorns where you have so much signal misalignment happening because you have no diffuse field tricking your brain into ignoring it. The downside is I don't think signal alignment will completely solve your issue, but it might be worth a try. Sealing off your room from the rest of the house is a great idea if you want to be able to listen at a single louder volume. But doesn't it get distracting when listening to quieter passages of music? Surely you want your ppp to sound as good as your FFF. You're talking a good 20dB worth of dynamic range there, which is a big deal compared to the level on your volume knob...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 Mike, Interesting points - although I think the dynamic range issues are a red herring in the case of minimum volume - but not maximum. The point being that at a given volume the whole thing "goes real" for want of a better phrase. From pp to FF it just feels (sounds) so right compared to even a smigen down on the volume control. The converse is also true - although this is where the dynamic range does come into play. If I raise the volume to high the FF passages just rip into my ears and the apparent distortion becomes too much to bare (sitting and listening anyway). For some recordings (eg. last movement of Sheherezade - Reiner / Chicago Symphony Orchestra - Living Stereo) the loud passages - where the whole orchestra comes in tumultuously - the actual ideal volume range is incredibly narrow, but, at the same time - too loud for use when not on my own. Our living room is such that I can close it off largely from the rest of the house and this does indeed improve the sonics but I need more. Interestingly the noise floor is not an issue. It is well sub 50 dB in my house (as long as the sliding door to the kitchen is in place as I have a refridgerator designed by Boeing!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Does you system have a perfect volume? Yes, and I'm sure everyone else has one too -- but it's not likely the same for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Does you system have a perfect volume? Yes, and I'm sure everyone else has one too -- but it's not likely the same for everyone. Or the same for each type of music played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xdetroitx Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Yes, it does...Twice as loud as my wife likes it. Unfortunatly my listening room is also my living room. I tend to like my music real loud, and Klipsch really accomadates that quite nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 There is a definate range of decibals that my listening room sounds the best. Say between 75dbs and at tops 100dbs, any louder and the sound begins to break up, but of course its frequency dependent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Mine does - and it is a bit of a PITA because it is just slightly louder than I can listen with the rest of the house asleep. On those rare ocasions, though, when everyone else is out - oh boy does it sound good. True audiophiles are single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 MAX.....Probably what you need for late night listening is a preamp with a LOUDNESS control...The circuit compensates for low level listening with a Fletcher-Munsen curve.....Mckintosh units seem more accurate than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I've not noticed anyone mention Messrs. Fletcher/Munson and their curves. While I suspect this won't be the answer for Max, I have the same problem. Kids in bed at 8 and music room upstairs where they are. I've dealt with it by using a single function parametric EQ that boosts the bass appr. 6db below 100Hz. For my ears, I don't need any corresponding bump at the high end that would constitute a classic "loudness compensation" perhaps due to the horns employed. However, that bit of bass boost provides for satisfying listening below concert hall (preferred) levels. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I agree it is a personal choice, too, for everyone. I think what Max may be alluding to I will use this HT example.. Your watching the movie CARS.. (Brilliantly mixed too BTW!) You hear the crickets chirping the wind blow as though it goes across the screen with the faint background sound of music playing in the streets like at a amusement park.. The dialog is clear... Action cues come exactly where they are positioned to be as the car comes up from behind you left spins around and is front and center.... It just doesn't get any better at this stage, Because everything is just there like it should be.. It is probably a little louder than needs to be.. but not too loud it is uncomfortable at long periods. And blows away your local theater. Not that it matters, mine seems to be - 45 to - 35 on my Sunfire system at 200 WPC. Where at -40... It is always a good start. (-50 never enough.. and _ 30 to - 20 is just too much for a longer period.. ) Is this what you mean Max? In Orchestral music I find when the conductors baton hits the music stand.. or a audience sneeze... LOL.. That pindrop od silence is there... That staccato feeling of a live violin that jumps off of the strings... it is just awesome at home. Yo Yo Mas fingers just making the cello sing as though he is in front of you too. Maybe the dynamics are purer at some level too? I find music CD's tougher to gage, some passages are so quiet you do have to crank them up and when they finally crescendo it is just too overpowering to enjoy ( OK, sometimes fun too hehehe) But you get my point.. Good topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 this is completely related to room acoustics...Hmm...I turn things up enough to hear the detail, AND the impact I expect in forte passages. Some preamps, amps and speakers need quite a boot in the rear to come into their own, which of course is very subjective. Another factor imo is the background noise level from the sound sources and amplification chain. Hum, buzz, or thermionic noise, if audible (I'm not even sure about that), will interfere with the clarity and realism of even the harmonics at low listening levels, and I think higher levels of distortion will do the same (I realize those are all forms of "distortion"). Regarding sound sources, even cartridges, of all things, differ in their background noise levels, and that would make a difference in how far someone feels they want or need to turn it up to hear what they want. I've always thought that the cleanest reproduction doesn't have to be turned up as far. My standard is concert halls/large auditoria -- those are reputed to have only 25 db of background noise, an extremely low level that the home can never achieve, as 40-50 db is more the norm. That splendid background silence lets instruments & voices stand out extremely nicely and may be a major impediment to home equipment sounding realistic. I doubt that symphony levels in a hall exceed 85 or 90 db unless there's a whale of a lot of percussion brought into play, e.g., in some Stravinsky. I would probably vary in how much I'd turn up different sets in different settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 How is noise floor of the room not related to room acoustics? [^o)][] As far as electronics, how can you live with something that has a noise floor louder than the room?!? That would drive me insane. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 How is noise floor of the room not related to room acoustics? [^o)][] As far as electronics, how can you live with something that has a noise floor louder than the room?!? That would drive me insane. []Max's original question was "Does you system have a perfect volume? By that I mean the point at which you feel you are getting all the music there is to have." -- that's what I thought you were replying to, and seem to have been mistaken. (I jumped past the stuff about the Fletcher-Munson, maybe lost the thread.) Sorry if I misunderstood. I find it very hard to tolerate noise louder than the room's noise floor, and much more so if I can hear it behind the music. Also, some sounds are so different that hearing them is more than just sound levels, i.e., room noise (background refridg's, etc.) that has such a different sound from thermionic noise that the mind-ear system can easily separate them out, so that hiss is still audible even if it doesn't show up separately on a sound meter. Room acoustics might only be a part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I would think Max is well above his room noise floor. Sounds like he likes his music at or near concert/original levels. He suggest's he needs only 5db to get to his happy place, and that suggests his listening levels are well above any ambience unless his room adjoins an elevated railway. I rather doubt his listening room has ambient noise levels of 80 or 90db, so methinks it is a Fletcher/Munson issue or personal taste in volume. If the issue is solely related to whatever Max considers "realistic" levels, then only headphones or increasing the mass of the walls and doors will help. If it is Fletcher/Munson, a bit of EQ is the ticket. If there are other possibilities I'd be enlightened to hear about them. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 And I was trying to address Max's original question....but the second "room acoustics" gets mentioned, everyone clams up and by default rejects the concepts. What's the point in discussing if everyone is gonna be close minded? The crazy thing is I can relate to what Max is experiencing, and have even experienced solutions to the problem! But whatever, acoustics doesn't matter when you wanna feel fluffy about everything. Let's spend more on the electronics! [Y] Where's that next magic needle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Room acoustics is a big part of it, and that certainly includes the noise floor. It's not all of it though, and you sure can't blow off the electronics as being part of it. Fact is, there are just too many variables involved to say one thing is the main thing. All we can say is that everyone knows and agrees they have that magic spot on the attenuator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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