SET, yes. 2A3 Moondogs, absolutely!

[mike stehr]

I wouldn't be afraid to use those Electra-Print transformers. I still need to use my pair of James universal OPT's for a project.

Some time ago I unhooked the Scholl OPT's I use with my 2A3 amp, and clip-leaded in the James ouput transformers. I listened to the James for a week or so, swapping taps, and even tried the different primary taps.

The James OPT's sound nice in my amp. But I remember hooking back up the Scholl's and prefering them. Not quite as sweet with a bit more grunt I suppose......

The Scholl's have a 3600 ohm primary with a 8 and 16 ohm secondary. Now I always wonder why folks say a single-ended triode amp has no bass and rolled-off highs.

I don't just play Jazz on the amp, but of course Jazz shines best with it. It will sound good with a well recorded compact disc of any genre. It does Techno rather well, industrial, metal......within it's operating range of course.

You would think I would use the subwoofers for music with lower frequency. But the amp can do 30 Hz, and you can tell. The subwoofers just kinda thump away with nothing really to add, I eventually just turn them all the way down, then off.

The subwoofers mesh up fine with my SS integrated amp. But the SET amp is best alone. More natural....hell even synth notes sound more natural. JMHO.

Maybe ol' Dan cobbled up a pretty good circuit....I dunno.....

[jazman]

I wouldn't be afraid to use those Electra-Print transformers. I still need to use my pair of James universal OPT's for a project.

Some time ago I unhooked the Scholl OPT's I use with my 2A3 amp, and clip-leaded in the James ouput transformers. I listened to the James for a week or so, swapping taps, and even tried the different primary taps.

The James OPT's sound nice in my amp. But I remember hooking back up the Scholl's and prefering them. Not quite as sweet with a bit more grunt I suppose......

The Scholl's have a 3600 ohm primary with a 8 and 16 ohm secondary. Now I always wonder why folks say a single-ended triode amp has no bass and rolled-off highs.

I don't just play Jazz on the amp, but of course Jazz shines best with it. It will sound good with a well recorded compact disc of any genre. It does Techno rather well, industrial, metal......within it's operating range of course.

You would think I would use the subwoofers for music with lower frequency. But the amp can do 30 Hz, and you can tell. The subwoofers just kinda thump away with nothing really to add, I eventually just turn them all the way down, then off.

The subwoofers mesh up fine with my SS integrated amp. But the SET amp is best alone. More natural....hell even synth notes sound more natural. JMHO.

Maybe ol' Dan cobbled up a pretty good circuit....I dunno.....

Hi Mike,

I was attempting to be kind to the previous bashing crowd when I made the statement about listening to Jazz music. In the real world, acoustic instruments define musicality. Well done SET amps excel at this. It does not require a rocket science degree to hear it.

Klipsch out.

[garymd]

Sorry if this has been covered already but were you guys listening to vinyl or CDs or both? We've had a couple amp shootouts at my place and for some reason VRDs always excel with vinyl while there wasn't a huge difference with CDs. Just curious.

Edmond - I sure wish you lived closer. I'd love to hear your setup or just hang out and spin some vinyl!

[lighting guy]

Gary,

that's precisely where I finally decided to put my VRDs in the system over my Wright 3.5s. It was in playing vinyl. I have a large room and felt I ran out of gas playing in the higher volumes. The Wrights, though sweeter sounding and more focused, were thinner sounding, particularly with my vinyl rig. I listen to a wide range of music including rock, and the VRDs just bring the power. I'm trying to get jazman to my place for a shootout. I KNOW his 'Dogs are better than my stock Wrights, and I'd like to hear the difference.

Darrell

[fini]

Darrell,

If it'd be OK, I'd love to attend that one! I've already got the wine picked out!

[lighting guy]

Sounds good to me![<)]

Edmond?

[Coytee]

Darrell,

If it'd be OK, I'd love to attend that one! I've already got the wine picked out!

hmmmmmmm.....

[*-)]

[coda]

Coda,

Haven't you added a few upgrades to your Wrights? I thought I recall Kelly saying something to that effect once upon a time, and yours as being the only pair of Wrights that he felt could hang with his Moondogs. What improvements did you make?

getting back to you, on the OPTs alone you may agree the DS-025 offers a great backbone with the Moondogs, and the TFA-204 used in the Wright Sound is more a study in tone versus dynamic swings. considering the differences, Kelly said he could be happy long-term with either approach. the only mod I had considered after talking w/ George Wright a few years back was going to the Sowter, but I've had good luck using a 2A3 monoplate / Sylvania 6SN7W combination that Kelly found addictive. seems the best way to get the most out of the 3.5s is to simply pair it with either the WLA12A or WPL20 pre-amp, still a match made in heaven IMO.

btw, if you should try monoplates we found the Arcturus to be the best of breed for the Moondogs, the refinement was outstanding. also continue to run into some nice results in the MDs using 5692s of the CBS and Sylvania brown base variety.

[jazman]

Gary,

that's precisely where I finally decided to put my VRDs in the system over my Wright 3.5s. It was in playing vinyl. I have a large room and felt I ran out of gas playing in the higher volumes. The Wrights, though sweeter sounding and more focused, were thinner sounding, particularly with my vinyl rig. I listen to a wide range of music including rock, and the VRDs just bring the power. I'm trying to get jazman to my place for a shootout. I KNOW his 'Dogs are better than my stock Wrights, and I'd like to hear the difference.

Darrell

Darrell,

I would love to get together. One caveat is, I personally am not a "High" volume listener, so please don't be offended if I exit the room while you listen past a certain level. I'm not worried about the amps. My listening is 90% vinyl. Let's get some email going on it.

Klipsch out.

[garymd]

I'm not a high volume listener either and I play mostly acoustic jazz, probably 75% of the time anyway. Almost every time I have another forum member over, they ask me to turn it up.

I've never heard any really good quality set amps in my system but would like to. I've heard some decent stuff at other folk's homes but it's impossible to tell how it compares without your own room and sources.

[lighting guy]

Not to worry Edmond, I'm no headbanger. I'll send you email today.

D

[jazman]

Sorry if this has been covered already but were you guys listening to vinyl or CDs or both? We've had a couple amp shootouts at my place and for some reason VRDs always excel with vinyl while there wasn't a huge difference with CDs. Just curious.

Edmond - I sure wish you lived closer. I'd love to hear your setup or just hang out and spin some vinyl!

Gary,

We did not have a working TT available, so it was CD's. They were played on Mark's Rega Apollo, which is better than the average CDP.

And yes, it would be great to hang out and spin some vinyl on each of our systens. At the end of the day, it's really about recognizing, and appreciating the different presentations of different components, within different systems, of different people. I understand that. I started this thread as more of a jabbing statement to get rid of those who have butted into SET threads with nothing but negative BS mostly. People could not even inquire about SET amps on this forum without the same old crap from people who do not even own one. People should feel free to seek advice and discuss whatever amplifier option they wish to pursue, without any attempts to discredit their pursuit or choice. I really have nothing against anyone's choice of VRD amps, or push pull, or SS, and have never spent any time with a negative campaign against anyone's choice. The producer of VRD's, in particular, has been one of those, so it is time for the door to be closed on that smug attitude. His product is "not all that", as the youngsters would say, so a more humble attitude should be in order, and more respect for all.

The End.

Klipsch out.

[anarchist]

I wouldn't play "acoustic jazz" at high volumes either and bet 1/4 watt would be too loud for me if I had to listen to it for long. []

So much for musical tastes, huh? Coldplay is my mellow stuff. I keep trying to listen to jazz from time to time but Jesus, what torture.

Anyway,

I would like to hear your opinions Jazman on the different equipment you did hear. This is our first chance to hear some comparative reviews of VRD's vs. pCats vs. set vs. others. Take volume out of the equation and lets hear about the nuances between the various amps.

[Cornman]

Erick, I noticed your comment about how much you like the Trancedent Sound OTl. Have you heard the T-16 OTL? The photo in your post is the One & a half watt mdl, right? Would really like to hear from anyone who has heard the 15 watt mdl. Also from the same company has anyone read there book called "Audio Reality"?

Cornman

[dubai2000]

I admit I am with Erik on this one. I really like all my amps and fortunately I don't have to decide which I like 'best' (and it's usually the amp that's just playing that sounds... 'best'[]), but I guess being hard pressed I'd probably also choose the SEOTL as my desert island choice. What's nice about those Klipsch speakers we own is indeed the clarity in which different flavours of amps are revealed and yes, that includes SET amps as well. The SEOTL (running with the GG preamp) simply have a way of getting out of the music's way and sounding so very natural (i.e. you never think that one particular frequency range is more prominent than the rest) that had they been my fist amps, I might have a smaller collection these days.

@Gary,

I have no idea why vinyl playback should lead to different listening results than using CDs.....especially if you always use the same phono-/linestage and only swap power amps. Anyway, to my ears the source doesn't matter (in terms of evaluating the tone of each amp)......each amp has its own flavour.

Wolfram

[meagain]

Is there a MDeneen SET design in the future?

-------------

Unlikely - even though I like the sound. My goal is capturing the advantages of SET while eliminating the disadvantages. That's essentially the goal of pCAT. There are just so many guys covering the SET realm there isn't a lot of room in there for more guys like me. I like where we are - the 'CATs are in a unique space. Way more power than 2A3 or 300B, and yet they produce that really tight cohesive luscious sound that is present in SET amps. Although I consider the high efficiency range (like Klipsch, Altec, Oris, Lowther) my main target, guys with 90dB monitor-style speaks can easily take advantage of pCAT where a SET might poop out. But of course, I would never say "never."

I thought they 'were' SET!!! Oh oh - I'm confused again. I had that wrong. Hmmmm....

[Erik Mandaville]

Edmond:

"transformers which, to "ME", are very key to low powered amp performance. Maybe one day I'll find one to listen to.

That said, a 45 SET amp was the best low powered amp I've heard. "

I absolutely understand that. The 45 DRDs I've heard from Welborne were also really nice with the Klipschorns. The SE OTL is just different from the other more traditional approaches, but that difference is of course 100% subjective in terms of being better or not. Part of that might have to do with what sort of tonal characteristics one likes, and in my case that's probably a little more to the cool side than warm. I'm not talking about blistering detail, but a slightly sharper sort of edge, as it were, to the sound.

Erik

[garymd]

I admit I am with Erik on this one. I really like all my amps and fortunately I don't have to decide which I like 'best' (and it's usually the amp that's just playing that sounds... 'best'[]), but I guess being hard pressed I'd probably also choose the SEOTL as my desert island choice. What's nice about those Klipsch speakers we own is indeed the clarity in which different flavours of amps are revealed and yes, that includes SET amps as well. The SEOTL (running with the GG preamp) simply have a way of getting out of the music's way and sounding so very natural (i.e. you never think that one particular frequency range is more prominent than the rest) that had they been my fist amps, I might have a smaller collection these days.

@Gary,

I have no idea why vinyl playback should lead to different listening results than using CDs.....especially if you always use the same phono-/linestage and only swap power amps. Anyway, to my ears the source doesn't matter (in terms of evaluating the tone of each amp)......each amp has its own flavour.

Wolfram

Wolfram,

I don't know why that was the case but the 4 or 5 of us in the room all heard the same thing. Maybe a really good vinyl rig brings out more of the amps character then a CD player/SACD player.

[Erik Mandaville]

"I realize my Bottlehead gear may seem so much entry-level, or low-end to most..."

Entry level is so often associated with price, and price is not always directly related to performance. More than that, an electrical circuit has no awareness or preference for the kind of fancy (or not) enclosure it's plunked into, and it would be just as possible to find a mediocre design stuck in a fancy box as it would be to have really well-thought-out design in a perfectly functional but not necessarily 'hi-end' looking presentation.

I once bought a really neat looking mechanical, daily-wind watch from ebay based totally on its looks (and that fact that it needed to be hand wound every day like an old clock). It wasn't long before it stopped working altogether, and I got brave enough to open it up to have a look inside. I found a very cheap, white plastic movement. Junk.

Erik

[Erik Mandaville]

Cornman:

Erick, I noticed your comment about how much you like the Trancedent Sound OTl. Have you heard the T-16 OTL? The photo in your post is the One & a half watt mdl, right? Would really like to hear from anyone who has heard the 15 watt mdl. Also from the same company has anyone read there book called "Audio Reality"?

I was lucky enough to have a T-16 here for a few weeks. That also happens to something of a regret -- that I should have jumped when I had the chance. Yeah. The T-16 is also a fine, fine amp. It's different from the SE OTL, but again the absence of an output transformer, for me, was something that was again a positive. It's a very strong sounding amplifier, and matched very well with the Klipschorns (as did an old PP 6L6 organ amp).

Sure, I know a few here who have read both of Rozenblit's books, and 'Audio Reality' is probably the more talked-about of the two. I'd rather not debate his essential premise/s, but it's an interesting read with the majority of his designs fully disclosed for others to build (though they tend to be a little more challenging than most of the amps discussed here). At least he is willing to share that information.

Erik