SET, yes. 2A3 Moondogs, absolutely!

[mike stehr]

"Why do people have such a religious fervour over their choice of amp?"

The drama.

[Audio Flynn]

I think you are off base here. The moonies I heard would be a little to loud to hold comfortable conversation given the volume that they delivered. Maybe you like yelling at dinner. Having said that, at any level I would prefer the pCATS

josh

Josh, I don't recall mentioning anything about the SET amps playing loud over dinner? And to answer your question, no I do not like yelling at dinner. That would be rude. Perhaps you misinterpreted what I said, so please allow me clarify it for you. SET amps excel at low volume with jazz, we all know that and not many would disagree, certainly not I. So I'll respectfully disagree with you as I'd prefer a SET amp for low level jazz listening, and pCATS or another quality amp for all other listening levels and and genres including jazz.

No you did not mention them playing loud over dinner but you implied(as I read it or understood it) that is all they are good for low level Jazz. I agree SET amps are great with Jazz at low volume, they are also great at medium volumes, and in my living room 15 x 15 x 8 they would play very loud and sounded great. I used a Ground Grid tube preamp with the Moondogs and bass sound great to me on my La Scalas. Living room size and speaker used will deterime if a SET amp will sound good or not.

I can understand and respect your opinion on SET amps but we will have to disagree on SET amps.

To me a great amp is a great amp PP or SET when used in the right conditions.

Now you get vilified for someone inferring your were implying something?

Easy to define my perception of the 4 SET amps ( one integrated and 3 power amps) I have heard. Sounded like i was listening to a concert from the back 1/3 of the balcony. Poorly detailed frequency extremes, instruments in space not readily identifiable and lack luster attack/ decay.

Did heard one homebuilt PP 300B amp on RF-7 that was pretty musical.

Never heard Moondogs, perhaps they have some undefined circuit design advantage over other SET amps. I have heard bad PP amps as well; but at least they are not batting .000 in my listening opportunities.

[Cut-Throat]

If you want to listen to jazz while conversing at dinner time you should probably consider a good SET amp as this is where they excel. Otherwise I'd go with pCAT's, VRD's or any other quality PP amp.

Uniformed Senseless Drivel.

[Audible Nectar]

Easy to define my perception of the 4 SET amps ( one integrated and 3 power amps) I have heard. Sounded like i was listening to a concert from the back 1/3 of the balcony. Poorly detailed frequency extremes, instruments in space not readily identifiable and lack luster attack/ decay.

Did heard one homebuilt PP 300B amp on RF-7 that was pretty musical.

Never heard Moondogs, perhaps they have some undefined circuit design advantage over other SET amps. I have heard bad PP amps as well; but at least they are not batting .000 in my listening opportunities.

This doesn't "match up" with my impressions of the SETs I have heard. Granted, they were GOOD SET amplifiers (and the good ones are the ones we wanna talk about anyway): like JFL Horus, or Moondogs with Ultimate upgrades.....and they had GOOD preamps, which matched up very well/were made for SET amplifiers (which tend to need more output from the pre - preamp/amp matching is KEY when working with SET amplifers).

Frequency extremes were NOT a problem for these amplifers. Nor was spatial imaging or detail (in fact, at times, a bit more detail than I was used to). The ONLY problem with these amplifers was output: In a roughly 15 x 18 foot room on Klipschorns, above 90db you begin to hear evidence of compression. But within thier range, they were wonderful sounding amplifers. This was the ONLY reason I did not persue SET for my main 2 channel system: I needed the additional power to avoid that compression. The SET was almost enough. I thought about 300B, ended up with MC-30s. No regrets.

I do wonder at times when people say that "my SET plays loud" just how much compression they are getting. "Loud" is a variable term, meaning different things to different listeners....although 90db in that 15 x 18 ft room is reasonably full. That would be fine for many listeners - and the "closeness" of good SET is hard to duplicate.

[seti]

I had hopes that this would be the first SET thread in a long time not to go down the same old way.

Oh well here is my favorite Dope From Hope quote and to each his own.

[awsjr]

as Cut-Throat put it so well, this is some more "Uninformed Senseless Drivel".....

[NOSValves]

I find it interesting that some are surprised that this thread is taking a nasty turn. The author started it with just that purpose. I'm surprised it went this far. The thread was one huge bait/trap job from the first post.

[Audio Flynn]

The ONLY problem with these amplifers was output: In a roughly 15 x
18 foot room on Klipschorns, above 90db you begin to hear evidence of compression.
But within thier range, they were wonderful sounding amplifers. This
was the ONLY reason I did not persue SET for my main 2 channel system:
I needed the additional power to avoid that compression. The SET was almost enough. I thought about 300B, ended up with MC-30s. No regrets.

I do wonder at times when people say that "my SET plays loud" just
how much compression they are getting. "Loud" is a variable term,
meaning different things to different listeners....although 90db in
that 15 x 18 ft room is reasonably full. That would be fine for many
listeners - and the "closeness" of good SET is hard to duplicate.

My small room is 16 x 24 with partially open walls (40% for one and 60% for the other wall) on 2 connected sides. Needs more speaker spl output to fill the room but is great for avoiding reflections.

The effect of compression either from the amplifier, CD or LP all add to my listener fatigue. Compression for any root cause is non musical.

[Audible Nectar]

That's pretty easy to see how SET wouldn't be for you, Flynn - especially with an open ended room - and if you get to that 90ish SPL area. Now in my current room where the 2 channel kit resides, SET would be sufficient: However, I don't expect that I'll be in this dwelling permanently, and since I'm not a big fan of "gear swapping" wanted to do something that would cover those future situations (like a larger room).

I am also with you on the subject of compression. Not desirable in any case.

I can, however, understand a listener who would specifically set up a proper room to accommodate SET amps. If one likes the topology, they work with it, and within it's limitations, as best as possible to get the most out of the gear. Nothing wrong with liking SET - but it does have it's limitations.

[Piranha]

I think you are off base here. The moonies I heard would be a little to loud to hold comfortable conversation given the volume that they delivered. Maybe you like yelling at dinner. Having said that, at any level I would prefer the pCATS

josh

Josh, I don't recall mentioning anything about the SET amps playing loud over dinner? And to answer your question, no I do not like yelling at dinner. That would be rude. Perhaps you misinterpreted what I said, so please allow me clarify it for you. SET amps excel at low volume with jazz, we all know that and not many would disagree, certainly not I. So I'll respectfully disagree with you as I'd prefer a SET amp for low level jazz listening, and pCATS or another quality amp for all other listening levels and and genres including jazz.

No you did not mention them playing loud over dinner but you implied(as I read it or understood it) that is all they are good for low level Jazz. I agree SET amps are great with Jazz at low volume, they are also great at medium volumes, and in my living room 15 x 15 x 8 they would play very loud and sounded great. I used a Ground Grid tube preamp with the Moondogs and bass sound great to me on my La Scalas. Living room size and speaker used will deterime if a SET amp will sound good or not.

I can understand and respect your opinion on SET amps but we will have to disagree on SET amps.

To me a great amp is a great amp PP or SET when used in the right conditions.

Now you get vilified for someone inferring your were implying something?

Easy to define my perception of the 4 SET amps ( one integrated and 3 power amps) I have heard. Sounded like i was listening to a concert from the back 1/3 of the balcony. Poorly detailed frequency extremes, instruments in space not readily identifiable and lack luster attack/ decay.

Did heard one homebuilt PP 300B amp on RF-7 that was pretty musical.

Never heard Moondogs, perhaps they have some undefined circuit design advantage over other SET amps. I have heard bad PP amps as well; but at least they are not batting .000 in my listening opportunities.

The SET amps which I've heard were very well detailed. In fact I'd love to own a pair myself one day for either my dining room or bedroom since that is where I listen to jazz at very low SPL's. Otherwise, they just wouldn't work for me as they tend to fall apart when pushed IMO. As I mentioned earlier, SET amps sound their best at low SPL's. The majority of my listening is done at 80-90 db on my main 2-channel rig. That being said I need something with more power like the pCATS, VRDs or another quality amp for nomal listening.

[Amy]

Mr. Piranha,

Please outline for us which SET amp you have owned that would qualify you to make any comment within this thread with any first hand knowledge. BTW,.......A response that you don't own one, never have owned one, but you spent the night at a Birds house last night does not qualify you. [N]

You don't seem to get it. A few members of this forum have now heard with their own ears, evidence that contradicts the propaganda you spew. Why are you, and others like you, so afraid of individuals discussing or pursuing options other than what you have chosen, that it drives you to interfer with their discussions? I truly pity small minds and intellect.

Klipsch out.

I honestly do not mind arguing about amps whatsoever. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and is free to post it here. This thread was going along fine until it got personal in this post.

Jazman,

Please refrain from the personal attacks. I sent you a PM yesterday. Please check it.

Thanks