Questions answered - Jubilee Sparrow's and humming birds

[jwc]

Hey remember....I'm not pissed. I'm cool. I was trying to explain how I know some folks are feeling alienated. I have had the sense..too...kinda...but not that big of a deal. I can just Relate. I get emails too and PM's.

"I have the greatest admiration and respect for you JC, and reading about your projects is fresh air -- please don't stop posting about them. However, since you're so transparent and put your stuff up for evaluation and review, it does leave you open to criticism. You handle it well. Now, I did have some thoughts about your Jubilee clones that would have come off unnecessarily harsh, so I didn't put them in the thread. So I did something worse, I shared them in email with a couple of people. What I basically said was that they sound like LaScalas because they curved like LaScalas. It would have been better to post what I thought in the thread so you could defend the curves since you were the one that took the measurements. I now wish I would have kept my mouth shut. Anyways, I want to say I'm sorry."

Dean. I have absolutely no problem with criticism. I have invited it. Infact....That was in the thread title! I am not miffed by any means on criticism...He11, that is what I wanted. No one on this forum intimidates me.....you know why....because I know what I know and what I don't know. There is absolutely nothing I need to prove. My DIY threads are for noveltly and interest. There is a heck of a lot I don't know. I've described my character before on my DIY threads is to come across as a "duma$$" as it will invite people to jump in and give an opinion. If I came across as a know it all...I would get no input. Criticism is what I want.

The Jub clone I made....sounds like the real deal to me....doesn't matter...again....I'll let my ears tell me what's up. A total project of interest only....absolutley no intention of showing up Klipsch. I got a boatload of emails after that thread and I know there were a bunch of emails not to me stating "I got it wrong". The laugh at that whole thing was that I had already gotten some measurements of the real deal dimensions before I built mine. I built mine based on the theory of the AES article and some of Dana Moores input including others. It was a forum project. Remember that thread started with the intention of building a bass horn and to get the logic down for everyone to understand. Then I kinda got roped into making a Jubilee. The first one sounded very good and that is why I built the second one exactly the same. I could have easily morphed the second one to be more like the real deal but I felt it Unnecessary.

I still don't think the DIY stuff here is well received anymore. I have a bunch of fun stuff on my plate that may just be for me only. I am working on that 225Hz Tractrix Flare for a 2" compression driver that is already underway. I haven't taken one picture which is very unlike what I used to do. Some of this build and some other may only be discussed over email to other DIY folks.

So Dean...you don't have to apologize. I respect your input to the forum and have no problem. I just think over the last year...esp the last 6 months.....the forum has a different feel. I ain't leavin......my participation will be different. I'm not whining by all means.

Again...I'm probably gonna buy some ROY stuff over the next year.......I haven't decided my end. I don't have that hang up with the product not having PWK's signature. The jubilee bass bins may or may not be in my new house. I was hoping I could hear some good demo of the Jub again at Indy. I may prize a trip to Hope and beg to hear a few other Cinema Bass bins. As much as people like the bass horns around here...I can stand tall to say that I am undecided to whether I like the sound of a Bass horn over a Bass reflex. There is no doubt that anyone here trying to take a stand to make criticism on the Jubilee setup....could fall to stiff rebuttal. Of course........rebuttal of the "sound" should be left to those that have heard the damn thing. The Jubilee bass bin sounds very good to me.......it is a winner.......almost all members here will drop their jaw with an audition of this beast. It may or may not be my champ in the end. I have time to figure out what is for me.

jc

[DrWho]

Not that I have much to offer, but could I get in on your emailing if that's how you're going to share about your projects? I've learned a lot from your crazy threads and I think we have very similar tastes in reproduction too...

Btw, there are other forums on the net that do more with the DIY thing...if you ended up posting in one of those sections I would love to follow you over there. Have you considered the notion of combing bass reflex and bass horn together? The new hornresp has methods for modelling that behavior (it also has methods for portraying the behavior of sound waves moving through a horn...).

[ClaudeJ1]

I still don't think the DIY stuff here is well received anymore. I have a bunch of fun stuff on my plate that may just be for me only. I am working on that 225Hz Tractrix Flare for a 2" compression driver that is already underway. I haven't taken one picture which is very unlike what I used to do. Some of this build and some other may only be discussed over email to other DIY folks.

jc

I sure as heck would be interested in a 225 Hz Tractrix flare. Is it rectangular or round?? I'm becoming a DIY, so please don't hold back on interesting stuff. I have been on various forums on all kinds of subjects since 1994. One thing that is consistent is flamers and trouble makers who are long on opinion and short on facts from actually WORKING on real experiments........you know, soldering, cutting wood, testing, etc.

No matter what, the 90/10 rule applies. You have to sort thought the personal banter to get to the meat. Thus is the nature of the Web. Keep up the good work. I'd like to see more of the horn!

[Guest " "]

After 5 pages...I decided to review the initial question and post any know answers.....

Q - I've sent a few emails and have not got a reply yet.....how does one get pricing info on a set of Jubilee Sparrows?   

A - If you can identify the theater product that uses these in their top section....you can get pricing for a top section from a theater product dealer

Q - Also, I am sure, there is a Jubilee senero that uses a tweeter, which I will call a humming bird...which klipsch theater tweeter driver is best suited for that role?  Pricing options?

A - If you can identify the theater product that uses these in their top section....you can get pricing for a top section from a theater product dealer

Q - I'm a 3-way person and would want to go that route reguardless of the popular view.

A - Not a question

Q - Who is the go to person for this info?

A - Klipsch Tech Support and Klipsch Parts are not the go to folks.  

[jwc]

I'm glad to see you are still looking for answers as this tells me you still may be in line to get some Klipsch/Roy stuff.

The top section I would love for someone to get would be the top section of the KPT-435-N and the KPT-335-N .

Bacically... The top section would be the KPT-335 HF/MF-N. This would be the K69/K510 as the mid and the K-70-G on a K-703 horn. XO points would be 800Hz and 5K.

In fact...I'm very interested in the KPT-435-N as an entire system.

I hope you get what you need.

jc

[Deang]

Mike, no one has called me deaf yet in relationship to the Jubilees, but I've been for the most part competely written off by some because of the Super-T. Ask me if I care?

JC, cool, I'm glad you're not annoyed with me. I have enough people annoyed with me.

Fritz,

Q - I've sent a few emails and have not got a reply yet.....how does one get pricing info on a set of Jubilee Sparrows?

A - by "Sparrow", I assume you mean the K-510/K-69-A combination? You go through Roy, and you can't buy just the drivers or just the horns -- you have to buy them together.

Q - Also, I am sure, there is a Jubilee senero that uses a tweeter, which I will call a humming bird...which klipsch theater tweeter driver is best suited for that role? Pricing options?

A - The two-way version and the three-way version of the Jubilee use the same driver as "the tweeter" - the K-69-A, but in the two-way version it's run down to 550Hz. Again, you can't just buy the driver, and you have to go through Roy who controls the internal process of getting the right combination of parts for any non-production configuration(s).

Q - I'm a 3-way person and would want to go that route reguardless of the popular view/ Who is the go to person for this info?

A - In that case, you are looking at the production unit using the production configuration, and you would buy it through the dealer of your choice.

[Guest " "]

JC

"I'm very interested in the KPT-435-N  as an entire system."

Thats the combo I was looking at in terms of top sections.  I'm trying to guess at the size of the individual horns by comparing to the 15" diver in the nearby bass bin.  Also trying to determine what other driver options exist with the k510 and the k703.

I need to get your email address to send you some additional info....I think I have it...but if you do not hear from me...

[jwc]

Yes...you have the correct email. I emailed back.

The K510...midhorn in that setup...is 15" wide and 9" tall. I'm not sure of the size of the K703.

The K510 looks like it can come with the KDE75 8P or the K69-A. Not sure of the advantages of one or the other.

jc

[Guest " "]

jwcullison

According to the Cinema Brochure

Mid drivers

k-1133 (3") on a k-402 horn, size of horn unknown

k-69 (2.75") on a k-510 hron, k510 is 15" X 9"

HF drivers

k-69 (2.75") on a k-510 hron, k510 is 15" X 9"

KDE-75-8P (3") on a K-510 horn

K-70-G (1.75") on a K-703 horn, size of k-703 is unknown

So far...no tech data on drivers in terms of SPL, response plots, polar charts, etc.

[Trey Cannon]

jwcullison

According to the Cinema Brochure

Mid drivers

k-1133 (3") on a k-402 horn, size of horn unknown

k-69 (2.75") on a k-510 hron, k510 is 15" X 9"

HF drivers

k-69 (2.75") on a k-510 hron, k510 is 15" X 9"

KDE-75-8P (3") on a K-510 horn

K-70-G (1.75") on a K-703 horn, size of k-703 is unknown

So far...no tech data on drivers in terms of SPL, response plots, polar charts, etc.

JUST FOR GOOD MEASURE.

ONE MORE TIME.

WE DON'T SELL HOBBY PARTS, ONLY SYSTEMS.

http://www.klipsch.com/media/products/literature/Cinema%20Brochure.pdf

This is a link of the cinema brochure that tells much more info than you show.

We do have other info for SYSTEMS. polars and such.

[Guest " "]

Trey Cannon

So no one can ask the size of these products.  We are just supposed to write a check, and figure it out once the box shows up.

In the sales realm, when I used to be a regional master sales trainer covering a six state area, I used to train sales staff on how to listen to their prospective customers to determine needs intrest wants and desires, how to formulate sales messages, answer questions, and ask for and process the order.

That means if a customer wanted to know the size of a product....some one would need to walk away from their internet terminal with a ruler, take some measurements, and report back to the customer.   I think it was called a value added service....ask your CEO about that at the next "how can we do better" meeting.

I have the brochue....it does not answer my questions.

[sfogg]

"So no one can ask the size of these products. "

Did you read the brochure Trey linked to? The size is listed in there.

Shawn

[Guest " "]

"So no one can ask the size of these products. "

 

Did you read the brochure Trey linked to? The size is listed in there.

 

Shawn 

I read it....where I indicate unkown...please indicate the size.  For example...what is the size of the k-703 horn?

[sfogg]

"I read it....where I indicate unkown...please indicate the size. "

You mean like when you indicated you didn't know the size of the K402?

It is in the brochure.The sizing data for the systems they sell is in there.

They don't sell components to hobbyists. Likely not worth the hassle. The people that have bought horns/drivers from Klipsch have bought existing systems. Primarily the KPT-904HF and the KPT-402HF for example.

If you want to be able to mix and match any horn with any driver you are going to have to look elsewhere.

Shawn

[Deang]

The K-703 is listed on the second to last page of the brochure Trey linked to. It's the last entry under KPT-335-HF. Height is 19.5", width is 27", depth is 9.75". It comes with the K-70-G driver.

[Guest " "]

The K-703 is listed on the second to last page of the brochure Trey linked to. It's the last entry under KPT-335-HF. Height is 19.5", width is 27", depth is 9.75". It comes with the K-70-G driver.

can't be...thats for the whole assembly which includes both horns.

JC indicated the 510 horn in his possesion is 15 X 9, the 703 on top of the 510, appears to be smaller than 15 X 9.

[Deang]

Yup, I see what you're saying, those are the dimensions for the whole motorboard assembly. Sorry.

[Deang]

"If you want to be able to mix and match any horn with any driver you are going to have to look elsewhere."

Roy did say one could do "switcheroos" -- but he needs to be involved so the driver one wants gets on the horn one wants. When Klipsch says they don't sell individual components to hobbyists or for DIY, I hope that just means they don't sell individual drivers or individual horns. I guess that's what it means, because if it doesn't, then it would be difficult to explain how JC got a pair of 904-HF's and how Rigma got a pair of 402-HF's. I thought those went through because they involved horn/driver assemblies. There's some mixed signals coming through here -- and Fritz's confusion is somewhat understandable.

[Guest " "]

"If you want to be able to mix and match any horn with any driver you are going to have to look elsewhere."

Some folks are reading too much into this....and for some reason feel compled to give unrelated advice, on behalf of Klipsch employees. The horn size question is a fairly simple one to answer. There are two horns in the assembly....what are their sizes....to help ....another forum member provided one of the answers....leaves one open question on horn size.....the reason I posted the question was to get input from folks who have the hrrn in their possesion....I sent the question along with a few others thru the sales channels...and have elected, as others have...to ask for input specific to the info i am looking for here.

Now the driver options...which I was told exist...requires my understanding of the order of merrit on these drivers and the performance to cost ratio's...I'm not liking the specs I'm seeing on the default combo's and can certainly afford to scale up or lateraly on drivers in that line.

I can understand fourm members jumping in and saying it's none of your buisness....but I expect reasonable questions be answered if formally presented. Which I have done.

And, since threads which look unfavorable to Klipsch staff vanish on this forum...all responses related to this issue are being captured on PDF, along with examples of all the other instances of selective compliance with implied policies.

One way or another, I'm going to get the info I need to make a purchasing decision.

[Guest " "]

DeanG

At least you have a set of Jubilees and certainly that warrants credibility in being able to answer some questions folks have.

That cenima brochure is not an easy journey to step thru....I just realized today...after staring at it for a few days...that the horn I want to use has a poor low frequency cut off....I don't know if thats due to the drivers or the horn size....so i need the horn size to attempt to math out why it's a poor low end performer.