jacksonbart Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 You should order 3 more to ensure that your happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I wouldn't spend a nickle on another sub untill you've calibrated the sub you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 I wouldn't spend a nickle on another sub untill you've calibrated the sub you have. exactly, but if he is not going to do that then he should buy at least 3 more subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 You should order 3 more to ensure that your happy Not nice. Do you think I have more money than brains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 I wouldn't spend a nickle on another sub untill you've calibrated the sub you have. I hear you but I don't think you realize how much bass I am trying to achieve. More bass.......... More bass.......... More bass.......... More bass.......... But your comment does disturb me. Now I've got an element of doubt to consider before ordering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 I wouldn't spend a nickle on another sub untill you've calibrated the sub you have. exactly, but if he is not going to do that then he should buy at least 3 more subs. What am I missing on this calibration thing? I've set the distance of the sub from my seat. I've adjusted the volume to try and match the other speakers. I've tried a different location. I've set the crossover to 80Hz. I've set all other speakers to "small". Please define "calabrating the sub" for me. As I understand it, there is minimal risk in adding a second sub and a good chance it will enhance the overall sound. A second sub will non-localize the sound, somewhat even out the frequencies, and add bass volume to the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 A second sub can also cancel much of the output of the first if it is out of phase with the first sub. If you have an SPL meter, you need to take readings at the listening position while adjusting phase and look for the best results. You can also use the distance setting to do the same thing. You can't take for granted that just because the receivers sub distance is 10 feet, and you sit 10 feet from the sub, that it is set correctly. That's what the meter is for. As far as putting the sub in different spots, you should put the sub in the listening position and take readings around the room close to the floor. The spot that gives you the best readings (and sounding) bass is where the sub should go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 A second sub can also cancel much of the output of the first if it is out of phase with the first sub. If you have an SPL meter, you need to take readings at the listening position while adjusting phase and look for the best results. You can also use the distance setting to do the same thing. You can't take for granted that just because the receivers sub distance is 10 feet, and you sit 10 feet from the sub, that it is set correctly. That's what the meter is for. As far as putting the sub in different spots, you should put the sub in the listening position and take readings around the room close to the floor. The spot that gives you the best readings (and sounding) bass is where the sub should go. Yes proper SETUP is a must. Cancellation is a non issue unless you have a muffin doing the setup,muffing each step..colocating...one sub phase 0 and the other phase 180...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Ear, I have two RSW-15's stacked and they are both set exactly the same. Is one supposed to be at 0 and the other at 180? I assumed if they were stacked you would set them the exactly the same as if they were one sub. They rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 SWL...NOOOO it was a joke. If they are located in the same spot(stacked for example)they should be both set the same(phase).Unless the Klipsch assembly line reversed the polarity on the woofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Roc, try setting the distance of your sub to be 3 ft further away than it actually is. If that sounds worse, try 3 ft closer. I'm just curious about your impressions....I tried this at a friend's place where we couldn't get anything to sound right and it was amazing how much of a difference it made [] Btw, that's assuming an 80Hz crossover....if you're doing something different, then you need to do different distances. Also, do you have all your Forte's set to small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 Roc, try setting the distance of your sub to be 3 ft further away than it actually is. If that sounds worse, try 3 ft closer. I'm just curious about your impressions....I tried this at a friend's place where we couldn't get anything to sound right and it was amazing how much of a difference it made [] Btw, that's assuming an 80Hz crossover....if you're doing something different, then you need to do different distances. Also, do you have all your Forte's set to small? Mike, I want to thank you very much for staying involved with my problem and taking your time to help me. I have 4 Forte IIs and 2 KG-4s. They are all set to "small". Maybe it is the source material that I am using but when I switch all speakers to "large" I cannot hear any difference in the sound. Maybe my source isn't providing the frequencies to my system that would make it sound different when I select "small" vs. "large". I started with a 60Hz crossover because I had read that with full range speakers, they could handle the lower crossover point. My speakers spec. at 32Hz-20,000Hz for the Forte IIs & 38Hz-20,000Hz for the KG-4s. I might have went even lower except that my A/V Controller only goes down to 60Hz. Right now I am set at 80Hz because JL Audio recommended that I use the standard 80Hz. I will try the different distances that you have recommended and let you know how it turns out. Thanks again to all that are helping me out. Your input is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 A second sub can also cancel much of the output of the first if it is out of phase with the first sub. If you have an SPL meter, you need to take readings at the listening position while adjusting phase and look for the best results. You can also use the distance setting to do the same thing. You can't take for granted that just because the receivers sub distance is 10 feet, and you sit 10 feet from the sub, that it is set correctly. That's what the meter is for. As far as putting the sub in different spots, you should put the sub in the listening position and take readings around the room close to the floor. The spot that gives you the best readings (and sounding) bass is where the sub should go. Yes proper SETUP is a must. Cancellation is a non issue unless you have a muffin doing the setup,muffing each step..colocating...one sub phase 0 and the other phase 180...[] I was referring to non colated subs. He talked about smoothing room responses with a second sub, which to me meant in 2 different spots. In that scenario it is EASY to get cancellation if you're not careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 SWL...NOOOO it was a joke. If they are located in the same spot(stacked for example)they should be both set the same(phase).Unless the Klipsch assembly line reversed the polarity on the woofer. Thanks for clearing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 A second sub can also cancel much of the output of the first if it is out of phase with the first sub. If you have an SPL meter, you need to take readings at the listening position while adjusting phase and look for the best results. You can also use the distance setting to do the same thing. You can't take for granted that just because the receivers sub distance is 10 feet, and you sit 10 feet from the sub, that it is set correctly. That's what the meter is for. As far as putting the sub in different spots, you should put the sub in the listening position and take readings around the room close to the floor. The spot that gives you the best readings (and sounding) bass is where the sub should go. Yes proper SETUP is a must. Cancellation is a non issue unless you have a muffin doing the setup,muffing each step..colocating...one sub phase 0 and the other phase 180...[] I was referring to non colated subs. He talked about smoothing room responses with a second sub, which to me meant in 2 different spots. In that scenario it is EASY to get cancellation if you're not careful. Yes. smoothing out the bass frequencies is one of my goals. Yes, in order to non-localize the bass sound I am planning to put one sub next to each of my main speakers (L+R) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Roc, try setting the distance of your sub to be 3 ft further away than it actually is. If that sounds worse, try 3 ft closer. I'm just curious about your impressions....I tried this at a friend's place where we couldn't get anything to sound right and it was amazing how much of a difference it made [] Btw, that's assuming an 80Hz crossover....if you're doing something different, then you need to do different distances. Also, do you have all your Forte's set to small? Mike, I want to thank you very much for staying involved with my problem and taking your time to help me. I have 4 Forte IIs and 2 KG-4s. They are all set to "small". Maybe it is the source material that I am using but when I switch all speakers to "large" I cannot hear any difference in the sound. Maybe my source isn't providing the frequencies to my system that would make it sound different when I select "small" vs. "large". I started with a 60Hz crossover because I had read that with full range speakers, they could handle the lower crossover point. My speakers spec. at 32Hz-20,000Hz for the Forte IIs & 38Hz-20,000Hz for the KG-4s. I might have went even lower except that my A/V Controller only goes down to 60Hz. Right now I am set at 80Hz because JL Audio recommended that I use the standard 80Hz. I will try the different distances that you have recommended and let you know how it turns out. Thanks again to all that are helping me out. Your input is greatly appreciated. Roc, You may need to verify that both your processor and your cd/dvd player have the speakers set to the same size. If they are not, changing one wouldn't make any difference. (If this pertains to your current setup). -David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted June 1, 2007 Author Share Posted June 1, 2007 Thank you David. The only place that I can select speaker size is in my A/V Controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplummer Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I wouldn't spend a nickle on another sub untill you've calibrated the sub you have. exactly, but if he is not going to do that then he should buy at least 3 more subs. What am I missing on this calibration thing? I've set the distance of the sub from my seat. I've adjusted the volume to try and match the other speakers. I've tried a different location. I've set the crossover to 80Hz. I've set all other speakers to "small". Please define "calabrating the sub" for me. As I understand it, there is minimal risk in adding a second sub and a good chance it will enhance the overall sound. A second sub will non-localize the sound, somewhat even out the frequencies, and add bass volume to the system. Roc,Roc,Roc, I think we've just uncovered your main delimma. Yes, your most likely overdriving your sub. You say that you have all your settings on the sub to max. Plus all your speakers are set to "SMALL". What you have done is send ALL of the lower signals that were meant to be sent to your other speakers, directly to the sub, therefore you have made the sub do all of the work in your room. Your Forte's and KG4's are plenty capable of being set to large as they effectively produce sound down to 34HZ. Why not let all those other woofers help that poor sub. The small settings for speakers was primarily designed for a Sub,Sat style speaker configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted June 5, 2007 Author Share Posted June 5, 2007 Roc, try setting the distance of your sub to be 3 ft further away than it actually is. If that sounds worse, try 3 ft closer. I'm just curious about your impressions....I tried this at a friend's place where we couldn't get anything to sound right and it was amazing how much of a difference it made [] Btw, that's assuming an 80Hz crossover....if you're doing something different, then you need to do different distances. Also, do you have all your Forte's set to small? Hi Mike, The bass got stronger when I set my sub to three feet further away. Weaker when I set it to three feet closer than it actually is. I'm using 80Hz crossover, all speakers set to small. I've also moved both subs closer to the corners to try and increase the bass sound. My corners still have a lot of boom in them and my listening seat seems to be like a small null spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 The bass got stronger when I set my sub to three feet further away. Weaker when I set it to three feet closer than it actually is. I'm using 80Hz crossover, all speakers set to small. Ok, this means you've got some phase cancellation with your main speakers. 3 feet at 80Hz is equivalent to about 90 degrees of phase rotation. I need to do some research on all the features on your F113 and then it would be immensely helpful if you could provide a top-down view sketch of your room. It doesn't have to be to scale, but it'll need to have fairly accurate dimensions. I know you've got all the pictures, but it's easier to work with a sketch. I'm also back in town so we can start talking about measuring some stuff too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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